Lab items update #28892
Lab items update #28892
Conversation
This is a general group. Later it would be good to have a chemistry/biology/physics/engineering distinction, but this will do for now.
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Before adding a plethora of chemicals which will confuse the heck out of non-scientists could we maybe start by adding systems which help with various other realism issues? Pneumatics, hydraulics and gas handling come to mind as scavenging that stuff is a far better explanation as to how we could possibly craft the pneumatic bolt driver, and water electrolysis is a very simple and effective source of highly explosive gas (plus the CVD machine really should accept gaseous hydrogen). A better distinction between high-power analog electronics and digital semiconductor tech would also be nice. As far as modern science goes we can easily have a mishmash representing different departments/institutes within one facility. Biochemists use particle accelerators to determine the structure of proteins and high-powered lasers to "film" chemical reactions. Astrophysics experiments treasure electronics workshops building space-grade circuit boards. This monstrosity exists for the sole purpose of measuring the mass of neutrinos but uses Tritium to do so. Tritium of course being a staple in nuclear fusion projects both real and fictional. More on point of this PR, the main issue I see is how the various lab rooms seem to be completely uncorrelated. Having a machine shop, an electronics station, a cryo section and a bio lab repurposed for zombie study in the same complex is perfectly fine but you would not have the mutagen storage right between the soldering station and the sleeping quarters. |
Feel free to suggest which specifics you'd like to see. I've basically just been adding the things I worked with regularly, because I have ideas for how to use them in missions at some point or because I know where to spawn them. I don't think having science items is going to confuse many non-scientists, these will all have their own scavenger results and descriptions. (Edit to clarify: I don't plan on just naming the items things like "LDA", there will be some detail in the item name too.) Shouldn't be any more confusing to a non-scientist than a pallet lift is to me. At worst it'll be like guns are for non gun enthusiasts, although I don't think it'll get that bad.
That's the underground lab, which is a mess that I might delve into a little bit, and that others have long term solutions planned for. These are largely for surface labs, at least for now, which are laid out like real labs. For now they're just generic "labs", but when I have enough items to differentiate them, there will be separation of wings by lab type as well. |
Pressure containers, valves, tubing (or an abstract "pneumatic hardware" item) for the bolt driver, a motorised compressor (or a repurposed gas/vacuum pump I guess) for sensible heavier weapons. Compressed air tanks for SCUBA diving. Water electrolysis yielding hydrogen as a combustible fuel (mandatory explosive !FUN!) or CVD ingredient and oxygen to refill the already-existing tanks (plus you could use it to boost fires I guess). Proper separation of oxygen and acetylene gas though refilling the latter would still be quite challenging. Propane/butane for cooking, makeshift metalworking and a gas flamethrower. Vacuum-insulated dewars to use as essentially heatproof vehicle tanks. If you want to get really nasty a helium cryostat on emergency power which explodes and suffocates the player the instant they foolishly breach it.
Guns are terribly confusing in-game 😝 What makes them tolerable to me is the almost purely integer-code calibre listing on every gun, magazine and ammo box, a luxury we do not have when sifting through the "chemicals" section of the crafting menu. Any chance they'll let you co-opt the item flags and ammo systems to give chemical formulae or key properties such as volatility?
Okay, I wasn't sure how far-reaching this particular PR was meant to be. I presume you'll still want to implement procedural generation/substitution for sections of the surface facility when you find the time for it though? |
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I really plan to keep the surface facility working using normal mapgen. That still gives a lot of ways for it to vary, but this is meant to be an actual research facility, not a crazy dungeon. Nested mapgen means no two facilities will be alike, and there will be multiple different layouts with different nested maps you can find. Eventually. Making some kind of cool system for chemical reaction listing in inventories would be really cool. Presently I just plan to give the items distinct names that make it easy to distinguish "sodium hydride" from "sodium hydroxide", for example. I don't have plans right now to develop a ton of chemical reaction recipes, but I will do anything I can to support someone who does. |
From a gameplay perspective perhaps it would then be best to implement the items but comment out their spawn entries until they actually have a purpose? That way you can implement a lot of recipe/interaction backbone if you want to and document everything to the best of your ability without piling up random chemicals we can't turn into bullets. Speaking of random chemicals is there any reasonable way to add macroscopic quantities of tin? Working bronze is substantially different to steel but unlike copper I can't think of any reason we would be able to loot large amounts of it. |
That's sort of the opposite of what I'm going for: while I do have some medium-term uses for these items (as quest items for NPC labs, which are starting to get close to implementation), I'm really hoping to get some of the other chemist types to start adding reactions with them once they're in. It's entirely possible I will do some myself in the short term as well, I just don't have actual plans for it. If they're commented out, then like a number of underused chemicals I found in the JSON files when making my lists, they'll just be forgotten and nobody will ever add recipes for them. If they're in game, people who know how to use them will likely start wanting to use them to make stuff, that's typically how the recipe addition cycle goes.
A metallurgy lab would be a great idea. It could have quite a large number of things like that, and would make sense for the type of stuff we're dealing with. Plus I'd finally get to use the arc furnace furniture. |
People work on what they want to, it's not ok to tell them what to do.
Having the items one would expect in a given location is the right thing to do regardless of what in-game use they have. |
But in the past we removed spork and CD for they had no uses. |
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Spork is still there, I'm not clear why CDs were removed. |
ZhilkinSerg
added
[JSON]
Well, not removed, but replaced with plastic chunks instead. |
Sorry, in case my choice of words left it ambiguous: I am fully aware I have no authority to tell/order anyone here what to do, beyond stating scientific facts everything is intended as a suggestion and I thank the contributors for their hard work even if I dislike/don't care about a specific addition. Aside from anything else with groundwork such as this it's nice to know where the priorities lie and which aspects are still open and unclaimed. |
Not done.
salvage is great
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Maybe use looks_like for those new items? |
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That's enough for now I think. |
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| [ "jar_glass", 10 ], | ||
| [ "jar_3l_glass", 8 ], | ||
| [ "flyer", 10 ], | ||
| [ "scorecard", 10 ], | ||
| [ "talking_doll", 60 ], | ||
| [ "marble", 65 ], | ||
| [ "55gal_drum", 1 ], | ||
| [ "30gal_drum", 2 ], |
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I though I removed these for good in #28977?
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@Photoloss: Pure tin, in that form, a bit difficult to justify. But once you've got an adequate heat source, tin cans are indeed made with tin coating steel, and the melting points are distinct enough that you'd melt the tin off long before you had to worry about separating it from the steel. |
Summary
SUMMARY: Content "Adds new item groups for labs (especially surface labs) and a lot of equipment and chemical reagents for them."Purpose of change
The current "science" and "chem_lab" item groups are for secret underground labs (and are, themselves, kinda dumb item groups with a real mishmash of everything).
This aims to add new item groups that are more specific about what they represent, without top secret research in them.
Describe the solution
I have added a wide variety of clutter items and a few chemicals. None of these have recipes or uses yet, although a lot of them have deconstruction recipes. I have some medium term plans for them, but I am totally open to others adding new uses.
I also greatly revamped spawning in the above ground lab (that was my main goal after all), and added these things to a few other lists below ground as well.
Items added: this is probably not a complete list.
Lab Tools
vortex
electrophoresis tray
microscope
dissecting microscope
rotovap
fractional distillation apparatus
burette
separation funnel
graduated cylinder
beaker
microcentrifuge
voltmeter
test tube rack
microcentrifuge tube
microcentrifuge tube tray
ring stand
ring stand clamps
stopcock
DMSO
chloroform
agar
peptone culture powder
acrylamide
gas cylinders of hydrogen and nitrogen
Item groups added:
Describe alternatives you've considered
I wouldn't mind having item lists and items for various other types of labs such as robotics, electronics, and such; however, I have no idea what sort of tools are used in those labs.
NOTABLY, I do not plan to add uses for these items. My hope is that people who are looting acetonitrile and want to use it to purify butadiene and make polymers will then go about adding that stuff themselves, ideally using the now finally fully implemented chemistry tool properties.