"Road lit" quest for streets in forests, really? :)

[Natenom]

Sorry for posting again regarding a feature that was just merged. But there are now many, many of those quests in the forests where I live. There are many forests here.

May I solve them all now and get several hundreds stars or should I wait for a fix?

[westnordost]

Hmm,... @krzyk what do you say? That can definitely not stay like this, but how to filter?

Perhaps only include ways with surface= something paved? Or highway=path which do have one of these designated-tags set?

@ALL: Is there any tag that is usually set on footways in a city but not in forests etc.?

[krzyk]

@Natenom Could you show us an example of such way?

[HolgerJeromin]

There are lit footways and vehicle roads in forests.
It is exactly interesting finding them.
A friend of me was very sad that no one tagged lit in his forest, as he searched for lit running training areas.

[HolgerJeromin]

ok, unpaved (see list in wiki) footway/path are probably unlit.
Ref #133

[Natenom]

I drive a lot through forests and I can't remember any lit street within a radius of ~20km at least in my area.

Here is a screenshot. All of this green area is a forst.

https://files.natenom.com/nidx/nobackup/sharing/2cd47d53fe794cfe24071a279a58cedec849e5a64d9da1776f7bc165a0d4bf68.png

[westnordost]

The best solution would be of course to detect if the quest is in town or not. In town (i.e. parks) may be lit, out of town, pretty much never. But for this app, this is pretty much not detectable, it must be detected by tell-tale tags on the way.

@HolgerJeromin Of course if then one of hundreds of ways is lit, the information value of tagging that one way with lit=yes is big, as it is unexpected, but this is not how quests in StreetComplete should work. If a quest is to be answered 99% of the time with the same answer, it is not good design.

Lit ways in parks (in cities) are often unpaved, so I'd use the "unpaved" tell-tale tag only if no other could be found.
Digging through the https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Path_examples page, I'd suggest the following:

highway ~ cycleway|footway or highway = path and (foot = designated or bicycle = designated)

[krzyk]

@westnordost but from what @Natenom wrote, the problem is for streets (highway=primary|secondary|tertiary|residential|service etc.) not for footways/cycleways/paths.

[Natenom]

BTW, this is the area: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/48.8715/8.6986

[krzyk]

Oh, so it is mostly for paths in forests.

[westnordost]

@krzyk I understood it is for paths mainly. For streets, I don't know. Haven't been out of town at night recently but it seems reasonable that these are usually not lit.
I suggest to add for streets:
highway ~ all_those_streets and sidewalk and sidewalk != no
(as lit is mostly interesting for pedestrians anyway. There is an issue for a quest to add sidewalks here somewhere already)

[krzyk]

for streets it might be too much, sidewalks are frequently mapped as a separate ways. So maybe in the beginning let's limit it for path, as the area from the @Natenom has mostly those (I see only one quest for street, all others are for paths)

[krzyk]

Created #428 PR with the change for paths, maybe it will be enough?

[westnordost]

I think not. We need to think about countries out of Europe as well. If there is a sidewalk, it is a tell-tale tag to detect that a street reached a certain development state. I am adding a sidewalk-check as well

[westnordost]

Also see this http://product.itoworld.com/map/69?lon=4.32927&lat=51.45528&zoom=7&fullscreen=true

[westnordost]

That roads where the sidewalk is mapped separately are now excluded as well is unfortunate, but reducing the number of false positives is more important than being "complete" - StreetComplete is not a QA tool that should show all places where it may make sense to add the info.

[westnordost]

Actually, there is an undocumented but frequently used (16k usages) tag sidwalk=separate, the app could at least respect this tag. Thats 16k more quests which are not false-positives 👍

[krzyk]

@westnordost maybe we could use around to check for near footway/cycleway? Something like this in overpass:

way["highway"~"footway|cycleway"]({{bbox}});
way(around:10)["highway"~"primary|secondary|tertiary|unclassified|residential|living_street|service|pedestrian"]({{bbox}});
(._;>;);
out;

EDIT: Created #431 to discuss it (and another idea with around).