Quest: Does this crossing have a pedestrian island?

[FloEdelmann]

General

Affected tag(s) to be modified/added: crossing:island
Question asked: Does this crossing have a pedestrian island?

Checklist

Checklist for quest suggestions (see guidelines):

• 🚧 To be added tag is established and has a useful purpose (Taginfo lists 99k items)
• 🤔 Any answer the user can give must have an equivalent tagging (Quest should not reappear to other users when solved by one)
• 🐿️ Easily answerable by everyone from the outside but a survey is necessary
• 💤 Not an overwhelming percentage of elements have the same answer (No spam): I'm not sure about this one. I think most crossings won't have a pedestrian island, but quite a few do. That might vary by region though.
• 🕓 Applies to a reasonable number of elements (Worth the effort)

Ideas for implementation

Element selection:
nodes with crossing and crossing != "island" and !crossing:island

Proposed GUI:
Simple Yes / No

Related

• Quest: Map crossing=island #495 (same quest suggestion, but with the older crossing=island tag, which doesn't prevent "no" as an answer to stop the quest from reappearing to other users)
• Ask for the type of crossing for crossing=island #1637 / a609da8 (include crossing=island in crossing quest, and set crossing:island to yes accordingly)

[mnalis]

Yeah, after recently enabling this in v32.1, I'm not sure about "no spammyness", at least in Croatia. We do have a few islands, but they are usually on bigger streets. Currently this seems to be offered even on living and small residential streets.

I can easily disable the quest for myself, of course, but I was thinking if it might be good idea to perhaps limit this quest to bigger streets only (for example, either by highway type and/or by number of specified lanes)?

[westnordost]

So maybe disable the quest for residential?

[andrewharvey]

So maybe disable the quest for residential?

Please no. It's useful for residential streets too, around me some have an island and some don't.

[smichel17]

This is where something like #2673 would come in handy, for determining spamminess in different areas. Some analysis of "can't say" notes opened might also be useful for evaluating "Easily answerable by everyone"

[mnalis]

@andrewharvey do such residential streets with islands have more lanes, or does it also happen when street has only 1 or 2 lanes?

[andrewharvey]

@andrewharvey do such residential streets with islands have more lanes, or does it also happen when street has only 1 or 2 lanes?

I don't think there's much point trying to say most of the time its like X, unless it's always like X then it's still useful for StreetComplete to ask.

[mnalis]

@andrewharvey Well, I have never (not rarely, but never) seen one-lane street with pedestrian island in my life. I can not even imagine how it would look like? In fact, I'm trying hard to remember two-lane residential street with pedestrian island, and coming with nothing... Sure, my experiences are limited to few countries, which is why I asked if you had such experiences, so we can have more views on the issue.

If you have one-lane streets with pedestrian island in your area, then it might be a keeper. On the other hand, if it happens extremely rarely (or never), than perhaps it should be filtered out to reduce spamminess.

Also, note that StreetComplete does not ALWAYS offer the quest, but only if it is not very unlikely to happen. See for example lit quest filter and #427 (just an example, many quests filter out unlikely situations, as all the extra spam is not worth very rare usefullness)

[HolgerJeromin]

In fact, I'm trying hard to remember two-lane residential street with pedestrian island, and coming with nothing...

https://www.openstreetmap.org/node/8138332244

[peternewman]

@andrewharvey Well, I have never (not rarely, but never) seen one-lane street with pedestrian island in my life. I can not even imagine how it would look like?

Bike lane, island, one or more road lanes.

[andrewharvey]

In fact, I'm trying hard to remember two-lane residential street with pedestrian island, and coming with nothing... Sure, my experiences are limited to few countries, which is why I asked if you had such experiences, so we can have more views on the issue.

https://overpass-turbo.eu/s/18XT Most of these are on residential streets, two lane. It's very common.

[andrewharvey]

Bike lane, island, one or more road lanes.

+1

This example probably isn't an island but depending on if paint alone classes as an island it could be. 1 lane because bike lanes don't count.

https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=-33.841511305538&lng=151.21166330548&z=17&pKey=227729625785154&focus=photo&x=0.49061463310605896&y=0.5301689211025441&zoom=0.8103975535168195

[mnalis]

@HolgerJeromin I would argue that last part should've been mapped either as two separate ways, or with lanes=2. If that last part is mapped with lanes=1 it is clearly incorrect mapping IMHO.

@andrewharvey thanks for that picture! Yes, that is very illustrative and while for classing as island it should be more than than paint, I can now imagine similar situation where there is an island instead of just paint. While ideally that would be marked with bicycle:lanes=* and/or cycleway=lane as described at wiki, I can certainly imagine it sometimes misses details when only motorized part of the road is mapped with lanes=1 and not other road details!

So I can see your point, if such one-lane roads with islands happen more than very rarely. Perhaps in that case lanes=1 when answered with crossing island (and without having cycleway related tags) should trigger Does this road has a cycle lane? type of quest on that road? Does that sound reasonable, or do you see situation where it would be wrong? (I'd open new quest if it seems ok)

[matkoniecz]

@mnalis If there are some specific improvements to be made it would be better to open a new issue for them. Long comments threads in already closed issues are (at least for me) not the best communication method, as it is possible to discuss endlessly. With multiple, amorphous, unclear or even never defined problem.

If there is some specific problem or enhancement - maybe open a new issue for that?

I get notifications about any comment made on StreetComplete issue tracker and in such cases I need to reread entire discussion to even know what is being discussed.

Maybe for others this would be preferable to discuss new related problems in the initial issue but I will likely start disabling notifications for discussions in old closed issues as it is far too time consuming to follow them.

To be clear: (1) maybe it is just my own preference? (2) I am not saying that such feedback is not valuable - just that I am not capable of processing ongoing commentary in old issues and it seems to me that opening new issues for that would be better (if there is no specific issue for that already)

[mnalis]

@matkoniecz and others - I've "moved" this manually to #3011 to continue discussion there ("Github Discussions" is likely not the best format for this, but this "meta-issue" is about finding the best way).