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Merging Lightbend copyright and ASF headers for existing source files #38
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In case anybody wonders, the date is the date that the incubation vote result was published. |
@alexandru suggested this once. |
Right, I recall that passing by at some point. Both that paragraph and the next one indicate that we can't remove the copyright notice without written permission. I've added what changed specifically for clarity btw. |
this needs to go to legal team I don't know why new threads keep being formed without any attempt to link the threads. This is the existing discussion: https://lists.apache.org/thread/z0r4sr4kdvmh52mlhc5porot2sh1wtok To summarise that thread:
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@pjfanning I'm trying to come up with what "bullit 3" should look like, but gathering some feedback within the project team before sending it to the legal JIRA. Seems like better to come with a proposal, then empty handed. |
All legal will need are these 2 links. [1] https://github.com/mdedetrich/akka-apache/blob/6680c47dcc2305906a44d7794081682211d7ee0b/akka-actor/src/main/scala/akka/actor/AbstractActor.scala I can raise the legal issue, if that's ok. |
Proposal for the NOTICE file.
We may need to further extend this NOTICE with details of other non-Lightbend software that is used by Akka/Pekko . This NOTICE is based on some existing files in other ASF projects - specifically, https://github.com/apache/poi/blob/trunk/legal/NOTICE |
I was going to adapt the proposal to the Other than that, I I don't think they need any examples for point 2, given that there's just the official docs, which I was referring Finally, just trying to help get some paperwork out of the way 🤷 |
I think this part should be shortened
I'd avoid that 7 sept or BSL refs. |
On the NOTICE On the header
https://www.apache.org/legal/src-headers.html#3party If you fear that coming with a proposal in hand won't be appreciated it can go without. |
IMHO The entire code base is a 3rd party work as defined in https://www.apache.org/legal/src-headers.html#headers
We will only change this for source code that has significant changes from the original. We will cross that bridge when we come to it. In addition we should take up Justin McLean's offer as he has in-depth experience in this area. |
Well, I tend to disagree on that for 2 reasons:
I sure had no intention to dismiss the offer of @justinmclean and sure hope he iterates through this. Yet, correct me if I'm wrong, but the new header better get a formal stamp from legal, right? |
The format and rename does not change the operation of the code, and therefor is not a change in the intellectual property. Unless you can argue that the code is not 3rd party then we are not allowed to change the copyright notice as per the link above. |
Well, if you look carefully line 1 of the header statement is the original notice is unmodified, so the proposal does not conflict with your statements. If anything, it adds a clarification of the current state and covers future work, but it does not modify the copyright as it existed up to the point of fork. |
Renaming the The question is, is such a header change legal? I think it is, as we won't be removing Lightbend's copyright notice, rather we are adding to it. Surely this is legal:
And, so is this:
And so is this:
Lightbend's copyright stays in place, where it was, nobody's touching it. And the change is very helpful, as it informs of the project's history, and this project will indeed have multiple copyright owners. Plus, at some point we will add new files. What will happen to those? Will they have a different header? I don't think they should have a different header, because even new files can be considered derived works of Lightbend's work. But then this header would be incorrect for new files, right?
And if we go with it for all files, what will we do when the year 2023 comes? Sure, legal needs to weigh in, however managing headers becomes impractical if we don't have the same header everywhere, and it would be best to use sbt-header. |
IANAL, but I disagree. Both formatting and naming things is creative work. Whether it's not significant enough to be meaningfully protected by copyright, that's another discussion. IMO, it's not practical to micromanage headers, file by file, or to declare Again, IANAL, and someone from legal should definitely weigh in on any header changes, to the dot. |
It probably is a derivative work, but unless it's mostly copy-paste of existing files, the new work (thus file) has it's own copyright so certainly should not contain a notice attributing it to Lightbend, hence should hold the official Apache header. So sadly one header fits all won't fly I fear. I don't think there's any dispute we can't remove the existing Lightbend notices (can be asked to legal). Other than that. Whether the rename consist of novel work is a completely symbolic discussion. If we're serious about this fork we'll need it sooner or later. As with the rename, let's agree on a header, get it reviewed and stamped. Then get it in. Postponing it only makes it harder, not simpler. So TBH I really have a hard time understanding the too soon side here. Does anyone object getting the ball rolling on legal JIRA? I have no problem with chasing this, though it could be Monday before it gets to JIRA. |
I've created https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-626 |
Sorry I missing this conversation as it was not happening on the dev list. As I mentioned in the legal JIRA reformatting code would not can't as major changes and the 3rd party headers need to stay as they are unless you have permission from Akka to change them. There is no need to mention protobuf v2.5.0 in you NOTICE file. License information should go in your LICENSE file. Please do not use "Copyright 2022 and onwards", as copyright has an expiry date. On the subject of ASF copyright notices in headers, please do not state "Copyright (C) XXXX The Apache Software Foundation.". The standard header states "Licensed to the Apache Software Foundation (ASF) under one or more contributor license agreements". Only 3rd party ASF headers include a copyright line with the year. Also ask yourself, who actually owns the copyright of a contribution? And does the ASF ask for IP transfer? |
That's an interesting point, because Lightbend doesn't actually own all the copyrights of contributions, right? The Lightbend CLA doesn't transfer the IP, it just licenses your contributions to Lightbend. So is the existing Lightbend header incorrect? |
That one's on me, but for the practical reasons mentioned above.
Well, the sublicense encompasses a right to copy. So I'm quite sure they do no wrong to slab their copy'right' on there. Without that they wouldn't be able to go proprietary either. |
My question was in the context of that the standard ASF header says IANAL, but the right to copy is only one aspect of what copyright means. If you hold the copyright, you have the right to, for example, contribute that work to another OSS project. If Lightbend holds the copyright you can't do that. But I'm not exactly sure how that applies to copyright notices. |
Copyright is an attribution of creation. When you create something the copyright comes into being. For example as of now I hold the copyright on this message. (This is why publishing letters written by someone else is legally tricky). I can assign the copyright to someone else if I wish. License is what I say you can do with material I have the copyright on. And now we get into what others can do with my copyrighted material. Under the Apache v2 license grant The Apache Foundation does not require the transfer of the copyright, it requires that you provide your code to Apache under the Apache v2 license so that Apache may do with it as it pleases. |
Starting to feel like this issue is or has become one of those gorilla dances 🤷 I sure had hoped the outcome on the header subject would be more actionable. |
How is what I suggested above not actionable? i.e The 3rd party headers need to stay as they are unless you have permission from Akka to change them. |
I think we all agree this is 3rd-party code. As such the following rules are in play: TREATMENT OF THIRD-PARTY WORKS
Is is official Apache policy and thus has been reviewed by legal. So the upshot is: DO NOT remove or modify any existing copyright notices. Change of package name is a minor modification. Modifications contrary to these restrictions will lead to the PMC not approving the pull request or not approving the release. |
Noting that I've proposed a simpler approach here of a new forked-file source header: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-626?focusedCommentId=17635668&page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel#comment-17635668 |
So should I just added befer the current lightbend copyright?
as @hen pointed out, I think even it's combersom but very clear. |
Let's get the JIRA legal issue resolved first. I want to see what other thoughts there are from the licensing committee folk. |
Closing this as solved in #50 |
Using this issue to gather some feedback before posting the proposal to the Apache legal JIRA
Current proposal (will be updated, based on feedback)
Next to including the Lightbend notice, changes form the default header text are
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