Add payment method: Venmo

[ManfredKarrer]

@flix1 Could you provide me the required data fields?

[ManfredKarrer]

Seems to be US only.

[flix1]

It's definitely US only. I'll ask Manolo for the data fields.

[flix1]

The only data field required to make a Venmo payment is the receiver's Venmo Username.
5-16 characters.

https://help.venmo.com/hc/en-us/articles/235432448-Check-or-Edit-Your-Username

[flix1]

Important to note Payment Limits
https://help.venmo.com/hc/en-us/articles/221010968-Payment-Limits

Everyone starts out with a $299.99 weekly rolling limit. This means the combined total of all transactions cannot exceed $299.99 in a given seven (7) day period.

If your identity has been verified, your limits are as follows:

Sending funds - $2,999.99 weekly rolling limit
Authorized merchant payments and Venmo card transactions - $2,000 per transaction

[ManfredKarrer]

Ok. Will add it.
I assume it is fast/instant and 24/7, chargeback risk is low and there is a webpage to see the transactions for proving to the arbitrator.

[ManfredKarrer]

[ManfredKarrer]

Ups, just found something concerning regarding chargeback risk:

"Venmo payments can be canceled before they are finalized. This provides some ability to correct accidental payments and rescind transactions that have not proceeded to the satisfaction of the payer. However, it has also enabled some scammers to exploit the cancelation feature on Craigslist and in other contexts by appearing to transfer money and then canceling the transaction before it is finalized.[33] Zelle payments to a registered user cannot be canceled, so they are more reliable from the recipient's perspective."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zelle_(payment_service)

https://www.bbb.org/council/news-events/bbb-scam-alerts/2016/scammers-use-venmo-to-fool-sellers/

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/1vfj12/localbitcoins_user_scammed_me_using_venmo/

Can anyone research the chargeback risk?
I will remove Venmo as long we don't have a clear view about the chargeback risk.

[cadayton]

I can not speak to the charge back risk of Venmo. For my use of Zelle with Chase, the only instance where I was able to cancel a transaction was where I made a typo error in the email address and the email address was not registered with Zelle. I was able to cancel that transaction and create another transaction to the correct email address. From the Zelle web interface that I've been using, it doesn't appear possible to cancel a transaction that doesn't have some sort of associated error with it. I see there are plenty of horror stories about people getting scammed with Zella though. I'm comfortable with using Zelle with Bisq given there is deposit made by both parties. Both Venom and Zella do indicate to only use with friends and family. I only use Zella with Bisq and no where else.

[cbeams]

More info on Venmo and Chargebacks, from https://help.venmo.com/hc/en-us/articles/217532077-Temporarily-Frozen-Account:

[cbeams]

And yet more information, from https://help.venmo.com/hc/en-us/articles/235171088-Cancel-Payment:

[cbeams]

This article provides a pretty good overview of why using Venmo as a payment method in Bisq is probably quite risky: https://www.thebalance.com/venmo-scams-315823. Here are the most relevant bits. It's worth reading all of it:

[ManfredKarrer]

Yes sounds nearly as bad as Paypal (no surprise as its owned by Paypal)....
The account age witness might not help too much here as well because it seems that Venmo can get funded by a stolen credit card and once detected a chargeback ot the seller happen. So a scammer can set up a few accounts, wait 2 months then use those for chargeback scams with credit cards. He does not need to know the stolen account data in advance as the scam goes over 2 hops (credit card - venmo account). Credit card fraud is probably the most frequent and problematic and with Venmo we would get exposed to those.
So from my understanding I would prefer to not add Venmo, not only for the risk but also because it might be the vehicle where scammers get familiar with Bisq and then maybe start to try to exploit other payment methods as well.

[ManfredKarrer]

After further discussions we decided to add it but keep the trade limits low.

[ripcurlx]

I think it would be great if we would define the minimum range with the same precision as the entered amount. So people don't create range offers by mistake.

[ripcurlx]

The reason for this different values is, that the first time a value that is greater than 0 is set in the amount field the minAmount field is not updated anymore. Maybe we should only unlink the synchronization of amount and minAmount, if minAmount was set for the first time.
https://github.com/bisq-network/exchange/blob/6f342c8d5aa92fd5ef406e676f2b1da1630b10ec/gui/src/main/java/io/bisq/gui/main/offer/createoffer/CreateOfferViewModel.java#L905-L915
So we don't check for coin zero, but for a new flag that is set the first time a valid minAmount is set in:
https://github.com/bisq-network/exchange/blob/6f342c8d5aa92fd5ef406e676f2b1da1630b10ec/gui/src/main/java/io/bisq/gui/main/offer/createoffer/CreateOfferViewModel.java#L671-L688

[ripcurlx]

I'll prepare a PR for it.

[ManfredKarrer]

Ah good point. I will change the trade limit to 0.16, so first month is 0.04.

[ManfredKarrer]

@ripcurlx You can postpone the code change for master so we don't add risk to the release...

[ManfredKarrer]

Seems Venmo is instant: https://help.venmo.com/hc/en-us/articles/115015844068-Instant-Transfers-FAQ