Change: Reduce China Black Lotus level up requirements by -82%

[xezon]

Related changes:

• Change: Lotus XP Requirements And Rewards #413
• Change: Make Lotus Earn XP When Hacking Vehicles #437

This change further decreases Black Lotus level up requirements by -60% (total -82%) for regular Black Lotus. Super Lotus is tweaked a bit differently, because it spawns at Level 1 already and has better range for Vehicle Hack. Super Lotus will require the same actions as regular Black Lotus does to gain Level 2.

Additionally the Cash Hack XP has been reduced from 20 to 10. This scaled better in comparison to Vehicle Hack XP (5) and Capture Build XP (20).

Object	ExperienceRequired	req. Vehicle Hack count	req. Cash Hack count	req. Building Cap count
Original Black Lotus	150 450 900		08 23 45	08 23 45
Patched Black Lotus (1)	100 200 400	20 40 80	05 10 20	05 10 20
Patched Black Lotus (2) (this)	040 080 160	08 16 32	04 08 16	02 04 08
Patched Super Lotus (2) (this)	040 120 200	00 16 32	00 08 16	00 04 08

Rationale

China Black Lotus estimated level up times

We do not have statistical data, so the best we can do is make a rough estimate for level up times. We assume in a match scenario a Black Lotus could perform a Vehicle Hack every 15 seconds, a Cash Hack every 25 seconds, a Building Capture every 40 seconds. A Vehicle Hack rewards 5 XP, a Cash Hack rewards 10 XP and a Building Capture rewards 20 XP.

Why these times?

A Vehicle Hack on its own already takes around 5 seconds to perform. Add some walking, fleeing and idle inbetween and 15 seconds do appear plausible.

A Cash Hack takes around 12 seconds to perform. Add some walking, fleeing and idle times inbetween and the estimated 25 seconds should be generous.

A Building Capture takes around 12 seconds to perform. Add some walking, fleeing and idle times inbetween and the estimated 40 seconds should be generous.

Veterancy	ExperienceRequired	req. Vehicle Hack count	req. Vehicle Hack time
1	100	20	300 seconds (05:00)
2	200	40	600 seconds (10:00)
3	400	80	1200 seconds (20:00)

Veterancy	ExperienceRequired	req. Cash Hack count	req. Cash Hack time
1	100	10	300 seconds (05:00)
2	200	20	600 seconds (10:00)
3	400	40	1200 seconds (20:00)

Veterancy	ExperienceRequired	req. Building Cap count	req. Building Cap time
1	100	5	200 seconds (03:20)
2	200	10	400 seconds (06:40)
3	400	20	800 seconds (13:20)

Given these 3 types of XP reward, we use the average time as our final result (rounded to 50):

Veterancy	ExperienceRequired	required time
1	100	250 seconds (03:45)
2	200	550 seconds (07:30)
3	400	1050 seconds (15:00)

GLA Jarmen Kell estimated level up times

For Jarmen Kell we can also do a rough estimate. First we look at how much XP we can expect for standard Infantry kills.

Object	ExperienceValue
USA Ranger	20 20 40 60
USA Missile Defender	20 20 40 60
China Red Guard	05 05 10 20
China Tank Hunter	20 20 40 60
GLA Rebel	15 15 30 40
GLA Tunnel Defender	20 20 40 60

There is a wide range of values. For simplicity, we assume a Veterancy level of 2.25. This is arbitrary.

Object	ExperienceValue simplified
USA Ranger	25.00
USA Missile Defender	25.00
China Red Guard	6.25
China Tank Hunter	25.00
GLA Rebel	18.75
GLA Tunnel Defender	25.00

We average this XP reward to 125/6 = 21, round down to 20 for simplicity.

We estimate a Jarmen Kell can realistically kill a soldier every 10 seconds, if there are targets available. Typically Infantries come in blobs, so Jarmen Kell can kill some units, idle a bit and then kill more.

Veterancy	ExperienceRequired	req. Infantry kills	req. kill time
1	100	5	50 seconds (00:50)
2	200	10	100 seconds (01:40)
3	400	20	200 seconds (03:20)

USA Colonel Burton level up times

Burton is the most versatile hero unit to gain veterancy with. It can not just kill infantry as Jarmen Kell can, but can kill vehicles and structures as well. The gun has a lower firing range than the rifle of Jarmen Kell, so for starters we assume Burton takes longer to kill infantry. We can realistically estimate Burton to kill a soldier every 15 seconds.

Veterancy	ExperienceRequired	req. Infantry kills	req. kill time
1	200	10	150 seconds (02:30)
2	300	15	225 seconds (03:45)
3	600	30	450 seconds (07:30)

Favorite vehicle targets of Colonel Burton are Artillery units such as Rocket Buggy, Inferno Cannon and Tomahawk. Additionally Burton likes to kill Migs and Raptors on Airfields. All these units give an XP reward of 50 50 100 150. For simplicity, we assume a vehicle veterancy level of 2.25, putting the vehicle XP reward at 62.5, or just 60 to keep it rounded. Realistically, we can assume Burton to kill Vehicles just as efficiently as Infantry, if the opportunity is presented. We therefore assume a vehicle kill every 15 seconds.

Veterancy	ExperienceRequired	req. Vehicle kills	req. kill time
1	200	3.3	50 seconds (00:50)
2	300	5	75 seconds (01:15)
3	600	10	150 seconds (02:30)

Favorite structure targets of Colonel Burton are Warfactories (200 XP), Tech Centers (around 250 XP) and Money houses (200 XP). These require just one demo charge to destroy and gain XP from. The rewarded XP is around 200 for most of the high value structures, so for simplicity we work with that value. It does take some 5 seconds or so to plant the demo charge and 10 seconds for the charge to explode. Adding a bit of walking and hiding to it, we can assume around 40 seconds per building kill, same as Lotus would require to capture enemy buildings.

Veterancy	ExperienceRequired	req. Building kills	req. kill time
1	200	1	40 seconds (00:40)
2	300	1.5	60 seconds (01:00)
3	600	3	120 seconds (02:00)

To consolidate the Burton level up times, we simply add them and divide by the count.

Veterancy	ExperienceRequired	required time
1	200	80 seconds (01:20)
2	300	120 seconds (02:00)
3	600	240 seconds (04:00)

Colonel Burton has a very competitive level up time similar to Jarmen Kell.

Conclusion

Given these estimations and calculations, we can assume that on average a Black Lotus will take 5.25 times as much time and effort as Jarmen Kell and 4.3 times as much time and effort as Colonel Burton does to reach the same veterancy level. Additionally it is very difficult to pull off Building Captures deep in the enemy base, whereas Jarmen Kell snipes and Burton kills can be performed at the front line in cover of friendly units and Tunnel Networks.

There is one big caveat though: Civilian building captures. Black Lotus can profit from capturing civilian buildings, such as Oil Derricks and Artillery Platforms. Especially at the start of the match, when nothing has yet been captured, Lotus can achieve a Level 1 or Level 2 promotion almost effortlessly. On some maps blessed with many structures, such as Oil Rampage, a Level 3 promotion may be possible very quickly. However, this will be almost always exclusive to the very first built Lotus.

Therefore a reduction in Black Lotus level up requirements appear reasonable. With this change, Black Lotus level up is 2.5 times better than before, and just 2.1 times worse than Jarmen Kell.

[Jundiyy]

I know I disagreed before, but I think maybe 2 captures to level up is okay, only the first time you train a lotus would you be able to cap many tech buildings, maybe a second time. The rest of the times, capturing would be enemy buildings, which wouldn't always be as easy to do whilst keeping her alive to capture many more.

Perhaps we would need to change to 3 caps after testing, 3 is my preference.

[xezon]

To get more clarity I plan to add a Burton level up estimation too.

[xezon]

I now added Colonel Burton level up estimations to compare with. I do believe the patched Lotus level up requirements are justified, albeit still worse than both Jarmen Kell and Colonel Burton.

[ImTimK]

Should experience value be discussed in another topic?

[xezon]

This one is closed, so yes no further discussions should be appended here.

[ImTimK]

Actually still would like to discuss this.

Because why aren't we doing this the other way around? By increasing rewards for cashhacks/disables/captures?
What are the reasons against this? Potential abuse? How?

Could help China to Rank up faster aswell, same like Jarmen/Burton can contribute.

[ImTimK]

Here few good reasons:

• All actions help her vet up, not just capping buildings. More gameplay variety.
• Allows us to equalize ExperienceRequirements to closer match Jarmen/Burton.
• Nice little buff for China to gain more XP the same way as Jarmen/Burton help with that.
• Burton/Demo Jarmen earn 200xp with 1 good building kill (this again helps the faction to Rank Up faster). 20xp for Cap is much too low in comparison.
• (Infantry) kills for Jarmen/Burton are (extremely) easy in comparison to Cashhacks or Vehicle Disables. A simple TH/MD/RPG kill already is 20xp. Not to mention easy Hacker kills. Lotus deserves to be rewarded more than 10xp for these actions.

Here a proposal:

• Requirements to 0 100 200 400 (same as Jarmen).
• Capture Building to 40 (still relatively low, but keeping neutral buildings in mind).
• Cashhack to 30.
• Vehicle Disable to 20.

For China to Rank up, she needs:

• Rank 1: 13 Caps, 17 Cashhacks or 25 Disables.
• Rank 2: 38 Caps, 50 Cashhacks or 75 Disables.
• Rank 3: 125 Caps, 167 Cashhacks or 250 Disables.

To vet up herself she needs either (combos possible ofcourse):

• Vet 1: 3 Caps, 4 Cashhacks or 5 Disables.
  Combo Example: 2 Caps +1 Cashhack/Disable.

• Vet 2: 5 Caps, 7 Cashhacks or 10 Disables.
  Combo Example: 4 Caps + 2 Cashhacks/Disables.

• Vet 3: 10 Caps, 14 Cashhacks or 20 Disables.
  Combo Example: 9 Caps + 2 Cashhacks/Disables (on Oil Rampage Map e.g.).

[xezon]

We can scale it up, but it would have to be done in lockstep, otherwise it changes time requirement to level up again.

[ImTimK]

Above time requirement model is a way to theoretically look at it, but the logic I used is simple and safe. Here further explanation:

• I took Jarmens Requirements to keep reward increase at minimum. 0 100 200 400 vs Burtons 0 150 300 600 (Although we could take Burtons model with Advanced Training aswell).
• 2/4/8 Caps for Vet 1/2/3 did sound good, but I increased to 2.5/5/10 since other actions are gonna help her too now and 3/6/12 might be too much.
• Equalizing Vehicle disable to 20xp is safe because a TH/RPG/MD kill (common) also grants 20xp, which is performed much easier and faster.
• Reason Cashhack (30xp) is lower than Cap (40xp) is because it also grants money, capping should also grant more because it blows her cover, can only use once.