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Fix: Standardised Toxin Tractor primary weapon minimum range #135

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merged 2 commits into from
Sep 1, 2021

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Stubbjax
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@Stubbjax Stubbjax commented Sep 1, 2021

Description

The minimum attack range for all toxin tractor primary weapons is now consistent. It did not make sense that the beta / gamma (blue / purple) variants had a minimum range of 10 while the standard weapon (green) has a minimum range of 0.

Old:

Weapon Range Min Range
ToxinTruckGun 100 0
ToxinTruckGunPlusOne 100 0
ToxinTruckGunPlusTwo 100 0
ToxinTruckGunUpgraded 100 10
ToxinTruckGunUpgradedPlusOne 100 10
ToxinTruckGunUpgradedPlusTwo 100 10
Chem_ToxinTruckGunGamma 100 10
Chem_ToxinTruckGunGammaPlusOne 100 10
Chem_ToxinTruckGunGammaPlusTwo 100 10

New:

Weapon Range Min Range
ToxinTruckGun 100 10
ToxinTruckGunPlusOne 100 10
ToxinTruckGunPlusTwo 100 10
ToxinTruckGunUpgraded 100 10
ToxinTruckGunUpgradedPlusOne 100 10
ToxinTruckGunUpgradedPlusTwo 100 10
Chem_ToxinTruckGunGamma 100 10
Chem_ToxinTruckGunGammaPlusOne 100 10
Chem_ToxinTruckGunGammaPlusTwo 100 10

@xezon xezon self-requested a review September 1, 2021 14:01
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Please add a comment behind each line with Patch104p keyword and a short description what was changed and why.

@Stubbjax
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Stubbjax commented Sep 1, 2021

Please add a comment behind each line with Patch104p keyword and a short description what was changed and why.

Ah, I was not aware of this process. I will append the comments. Is there a reason for doing it this way and not e.g. using Git Blame to inspect changes?

@commy2
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commy2 commented Sep 1, 2021

Why not make all 0?

@Stubbjax
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Stubbjax commented Sep 1, 2021

Why not make all 0?

Why? Skilled players can use the minimum attack range to their advantage by molesting the tractor. Setting it to 0 would be removing this skill differentor.

Not only that, but it looks funky that the nozzle can spray in on itself.

@xezon
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xezon commented Sep 1, 2021

Documenting our changes will make it easy for everyone to search for them with any text editor.

@xezon xezon merged commit 09e1e62 into main Sep 1, 2021
@Stubbjax Stubbjax deleted the fix-toxin-tractor-min-range branch September 1, 2021 16:06
@Jundiyy
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Jundiyy commented Sep 2, 2021

I'm not sure but all set to 0 might be more normal for players. Suddenly not being able to attack close targets would feel weird imo.

And perhaps the reason for the difference was that the weaker Toxin was given a bit of an advantage by allowing it to target at 0. Whereas the stronger ones were given more damage but had to pay by having a minimum distance.

@xezon
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xezon commented Sep 2, 2021

It may be worthwhile to check how 0 compares to 10. And then see if we should tweak it smaller than 10.

@Stubbjax
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Stubbjax commented Sep 2, 2021

I'm not sure but all set to 0 might be more normal for players. Suddenly not being able to attack close targets would feel weird imo.

Does it feel weird when your RPG Troopers or Scorpions have to reposition when a target gets too close?

Imagine a pro player's humvee is about to die to a toxin tractor. They micro their humvee to continuously drive close to the tractor to save their humvee from death and kill the tractor. There is an admirable level of skill and knowledge required to pull this off - a crowd-pleaser moment, if you will. By setting the minimum range to 0, you are effectively removing this skill differentiator. How is that beneficial for the game?

And perhaps the reason for the difference was that the weaker Toxin was given a bit of an advantage by allowing it to target at 0. Whereas the stronger ones were given more damage but had to pay by having a minimum distance.

If anything feels weird, it's that the minimum range is inconsistent and that the base toxin weapon can essentially spray inwards. It's not like different tractors have different ranges (which would be more acceptable) - it actually changes when upgraded (or becoming heroic, which gives the beta weapon). Not only that, but it's a one-off change between default and beta, with no further change between beta and gamma.

It also makes no sense to over-buff a stat and then try to compensate by debuffing another stat. Adding inconsistencies has to be done with careful consideration and make sense, as it is an additional interaction for players to learn. Increasing the minimum range once when upgrading toxin damage is not a logical inconsistency in my book.

@Jundiyy
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Jundiyy commented Sep 3, 2021

I don't think it would be bad to make them all 10, or more than 0 so it doesn't spray on itself. You have a point of spraying inwards, of course the micro part is also nice for all Tractors that you have mentioned. Think this should be a good move.

The point I meant about the reasoning from EA was, was the original weapons all have 0 then anything that's upgraded gets 10. Which does make sense for why they would do that but I think what you have said is better.

@commy2
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commy2 commented Sep 3, 2021

The min range changing is obviously not intentional. It's typical fat-fingering.

xezon pushed a commit that referenced this pull request Aug 28, 2022
* The minimum attack range for all toxin tractors is now consistent.
@xezon xezon added Design Is a matter of game design Minor Severity: Minor < Major < Critical < Blocker GLA Affects GLA faction labels Mar 18, 2023
@xezon xezon changed the title Standardised Toxin Tractor primary weapon minimum range Fix: Standardised Toxin Tractor primary weapon minimum range Mar 19, 2023
@xezon xezon added the Nerf Makes a thing less powerful label May 5, 2023
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4 participants