Updated 3OSC Presets

[StakeoutPunch]

Here it is. Maybe after this I will do SID and LB302? I'd love to do monstro if I can get my hands on a compiled build with it. Pull Request for #1099

Info on this pull request:

First off, here are the patches I have added to the tripleOsc preset root:

BlandModBass: Bland but sounds sorta like Organic on a good day.
BrokenToy: Very interesting broken toy'esc sound. Hence the name
CryingPads: Stack'em
DetunedGhost: Heavily reverbed synth that sounds really eerie when detuned using an LFO
DirtyReece: Filthy bass reece patch. Volume best controlled with an FX channel
ElectricOboe: My favorite patch I've ever made
Garfunkel: The most unpredictable patch I've ever made
HugeGrittyBass: It's name says it all
PercussiveBass: Groove on
PMFMFTWbass: PM and FM! Plus a harmonic generator for extra roughness
PM-FMstring: Steel sounding string using PM/FM
SquarePing: A nice little ping
SuperSawLead: Loud but not /harsh/
TINTNpad: A nice pad using notch filters

NEW:

Drums_Kick: A kick made using @diizy 's tutorial
Drums_HardKick: A more distorted variant.
Drums_Snare
Drums_HihatO: An open hihat
Drums_HihatC: A closed hihat

Here is the list of the old patches and what I have done:

AmazingBubbles: NC
AnalogDreams: Tweaked
AnalogTimes: Tweaked
AnalogTimes2: Tweaked and renamed to "AnalogBell"
Analogous: Tweaked
ArpKing: Removed, similar to "PluckArpeggio"
Arpeggio_1: Tweaked and renamed to "ArpeggioPing"
Arpeggio_2: Renamed to Arpeggio
Bell: Tweaked, added slight reverb
Bell_2: Renamed "DullBell"
ChurchOrgan: Not changed (NC)
DeathBass: Removed. Replaced with "HugeGrittyBass"
Distorted-FM-Bass: Renamed to "DistortedPMBass" (because it uses PM, not FM)
Dull-Bell-Arp: Renamed to "BellArp"
E-Organ: NC
E-Organ2: NC
Erazzor: NC (how could I even begin to tamper with the most iconic LMMS preset?)
Fat-FMish-Bells: Renamed to "Fat PM Arp"
Fat-TB303-Arp: Changed volume, took hyphens out of name
Fat: Removed, replaced with "HugeGrittyBass"
FatCheese: Tweaked
Freaky-Bass: NC
FutureBass: Tweaked
Gong: Removed, very similar to Bell
Harmonium: Slightly tweaked
Harp-of-a-Fairy: NC
Jupiter: Synced arp to project tempo
Kick: Removed, replaced, see above
Kick2: Removed, replaced, see above
LFO-party: Sligthly tweaked
LovelyDream: NC
MoogArpeggio: NC
MoveYourBody: Tweaked
OldComputerGames: Tweaked a bit
Play-some-rock: Tweaked to sound more like a guitar
PluckArpeggio: NC
PowerStrings: Added EQ, volume tweaks
RaveBass: NC
Ravemania: Tweaked cutoff and volume envelopes
ResoBass: Tweaked env filter
ResonantPad: Changed volume
RockOrgan: Removed. Similar to ChurchOrgan, not hard to make from ChurchOrgan
Rough!: Changed volume
SBass: Renamed to "PMbass"
SBass2: Renamed to "PluckBass"
SEGuitar: NC
SawLead: Replaced with "SuperSawLead"
SawReso: Tweaked
Short 1-4: Removed due to sounding like non-arp versions of a few of the arps
SoftBass: Tweaked and renamed to "FuzzyAnalogBass"
SoftStrings: Removed, similar to "PowerStrings"
SpaceBass: Tweaked
Square: NC
Supernova: Added an EQ
TB303: NC
TB303-Arpeggio: removed, users can make it easily out of "TB303"
TheFirstOne: NC
TheMaster: Added amplifier to help lower its piercing volume
TranceLead: NC
WarmStack: Changed volume
Whistle: NC
Xylophon: NC

[tresf]

Thanks for the hard work on these. That is a very detailed pull request!

[tresf]

Whoops, I typed a bunch of garbage and deleted it.

I'd love to do monstro if I can get my hands on a compiled build with it.

What platform?

[StakeoutPunch]

Win7, preferably 64 bit

[StakeoutPunch]

Oops hit wrong button wow I'm good

[tresf]

I'd love to do monstro if I can get my hands on a compiled build with it.

The Beta version (currently RC4) has Monstro as well as other new instruments. Download it for Windows 32-bit or 64-bit (and Mac 64-bit) here:

http://lmms.io/download

[StakeoutPunch]

I literally just closed and reopened the pull request by accident, why is the Travis build no longer passing?

[tresf]

Don't worry about it, you made no code changes so if it fails the blame goes somewhere else. :)

[diizy]

On 08/26/2014 04:06 PM, Tres Finocchiaro wrote:

Renaming and tweaking these files can certainly be done in our stable
branch

Actually no - Zyn changes must be submitted to the lmms/zyn repo,
otherwise they're overwritten the next time the lmms/zyn repo gets
pulled in to main lmms.

Also, I also hold reservations about removing/changing presets that come
from upstream Zyn. We shouldn't change things downstream without a good
reason.

[Sti2nd]

I disagree that presets should be in folders with artist name, cause it can get quite messy if everyone were to have their own folder. In the future it will perhaps be many folders with artist name with one or a few presets. If labeling had been a feature, I would of course allow you to label it with your artist name. What about adding the name of artists that have contributed material to LMMS in the Author section? Can we allow that, and do you want that @StakeoutPunch ?

[StakeoutPunch]

@Sti2nd

I would of course allow

But what gives you the right to say that? Technicalities, man. /NotSerious

What if the folder was placed in a subfolder named "Collection" or something similar to how Zyn does it? Aka /Presets/TrippleOscillator/Collection/"ArtistSubmittedOrDownloaded"

I will say that I never considered that an artist would be allowed to have their own folder for only a couple presets - I was of the mindset that to have the "pack" approved there would need to be quite a few. But that isn't the point of this discussion, I suppose.

@diizy

Actually no - Zyn changes must be submitted to the lmms/zyn repo,
otherwise they're overwritten the next time the lmms/zyn repo gets
pulled in to main lmms.

Also, I also hold reservations about removing/changing presets that come
from upstream Zyn. We shouldn't change things downstream without a good
reason.

Please fill me in, I don't know what's going on in that post since I just changed files in the 3Osc preset folder.

[diizy]

On 08/26/2014 06:01 PM, Stian Jørgensrud wrote:

I disagree that presets should be in folders with artist name,

Oh yeah, agreed. Either follow the existing directory structure, or if
there isn't a suitable existing directory, create one that is
descriptive, clear and concise. Not based on creator name, but type of
preset (eg. synth, instrument, sound effect etc. )

I'll have to take a closer look at the pull request later.

[diizy]

Also: For all the presets that you want to delete, please write your reasoning for wanting to delete them. I see several good presets in the "removed" list - ones that I have used even.

[StakeoutPunch]

@diizy
A closer look would be nice

Either follow the existing directory structure,

Zyn uses the structure I suggested earlier, using a "Collection" folder to contain content from specific people (Will Godfrey, but if Unfa wanted to he could probably get stuff in there too). I don't see why 3OSC can't have the same. *EDIT: To clarify, I not talking about what I suggested initially in the commit! I'm currently talking about the latest comments I have made.

Not based on creator name,

Again, Zyn has a section that is based off creator name, just to have that bit of info out there.

but type of preset (eg. synth, instrument, sound effect etc.

I actually tried doing that, but it is hard to categorize a lot of presets that don't have specific purposes. Most of the presets with "analog" in the name could be used for just about anything, but there are enough analog sounds that are too varied there would be no other folders... Basically 3OSC is just 3OSC, haha.

[diizy]

On 08/26/2014 06:36 PM, StakeoutPunch wrote:

@diizy https://github.com/diizy
A closer look would be nice

Either follow the existing directory structure,

Zyn uses the structure I suggested earlier, using a "Collection"
folder to contain content from specific people (Will Godfrey, but if
Unfa wanted to he could probably get stuff in there too). I don't see
why 3OSC can't have the same.

IIRC, the directory structure comes from upstream so there's little
point in us changing it. That doesn't mean we should perpetuate the same
stupidity for our own presets. Let's organize our presets in a way that
benefits the users, not to stroke the ego of the creator. The users
don't really care who made a preset...

I actually tried doing that, but it is hard to categorize a lot of
presets that don't have specific purposes. Most of the presets with
"analog" in the name could be used for just about anything, but there
are enough analog sounds that are too varied there would be no other
folders... Basically 3OSC is just 3OSC, haha.

Then just put them in the tripleosc root. Problem solved.

[StakeoutPunch]

Will do then. I'll need to push again, uno momento

[tresf]

@diizy, In regards to Zyn, I accidentally mentioned Zyn. It's unrelated to this push. My mistake, hence the "whoops" and edit above. This is just for TripleOsc.

[StakeoutPunch]

I have commited and pushed a version where all samples are in the tripleosc root. If I can think of a clever way to categorize them I will make a new pull request.

[tresf]

Not based on creator name, but type of preset (eg. synth, instrument, sound effect etc. )

There's one exception to this and it's William Godfrey which is a tremendous preset collection that comes from upstream Zyn, so we take it.

I have commited and pushed a version where all samples are in the tripleosc root. If I can think of a clever way to categorize them I will make a new pull request.

Great. Categorization will come with time. I think what you are doing is a necessary step leading up to proper categorization. Not all of our plugins have enough presets to justify categorization, and one could argue that sorting presets by category rather than instrument could have it's merits, but that can all be improved upon when we enhance the file browser for better display, searching, etc. :)

[Sti2nd]

I think, I am not that good in English.

In Norwegian

I would of course allow

This isn't so serious as it might be in English. Point was that you will get credited for these good presets and your work, but I think folders after name of a person is illogical. You can rarely know what you will find in such a folder. The collection idea is therefore better. Only problem with that for me, which always annoys me, is that I then must open two extra folders to get to the content. Labeling would be the best, or your name in the authors section if that is enough.

[StakeoutPunch]

My name and email in the authors section is enough.

[tresf]

My name and email in the authors section is enough.

Brings this a bit off topic, but I wanted to elaborate a little...

Toby is pretty good about adding contributors to the Involved tab in the about dialog. He puts them in order of commits, so I can only assume, once a commit is accepted, it bumps the author of that commit onto this list. I can only assume Toby has a trick for grabbing these from version control and updating the source. From what I've observed, he has quite a few of these little things he does occasionally for the build process -- things that I'm NOT doing. Another item is the occasional compiling/rebuilding of translation files in case someone changed a line but never created the binary.

On occasion he also adds people to the Authors tab, which last time went out as an email.

So, feel free to add yourself to one or both of these lists via the same pull request, or it should be added naturally over time.

[StakeoutPunch]

I'm just going off what @Sti2nd said

[tresf]

Brings this a bit off topic

 

I'm just going off what @Sti2nd said

The off topic comment was simply a disclaimer for my own TL;DR, not trying to imply anything else. 😈

[diizy]

Also: For all the presets that you want to delete, please write your reasoning for wanting to delete them. I see several good presets in the "removed" list - ones that I have used even.

[StakeoutPunch]

please write your reasoning

in the list per patch, done. Collectively, below.

good presets in the "removed" list

I'm being totally objective here, why settle for good? There is a wise saying, out with the old, in with the new. Why would we continue clinging to good presets when they can be replaced with great presets? There is noting wrong with removing presets, just personal opinions about what. I don't think it is as big or serious of a deal as you seem to be trying to make it.

And to justify claiming that it is just personal opinions here, you don't seem to want anything removed, while if I could have my way I would remove them all so it could be started from scratch.

[StakeoutPunch]

Here is a song I made a while ago, it contains a couple of the presets I included.

https://soundcloud.com/blackpatch/pristine-myth-ii

[diizy]

Ok, I went through your list and here's the ones I don't think should be removed:

AmazingBubbles2 - Any problems with clipping can be fixed with limiters, which should in most cases be used anyway. Maybe you can just add a limiter to the FX chain of it, although I kind of think that's something that should usually be left up to the user...

Freaky Bass, Saw reso, Space bass, TranceLead - Just because you think a preset is "generic" doesn't mean they should be removed. Most new users who come to LMMS WANT these generic sounds - if we remove these, forums will be flooded with posts asking how to make that trance sound...

Kick 2 - yes we have kicker, so what? By that logic, we shouldn't have any of your presets either because they can all be made with synths other than 3xosc... I think one preset showcasing how to do a kick drum with 3xosc is a good thing. Teaches people about sound synthesis. This could be replaced with a better 3xosc kick, though. But there should definitely be at least one kick.

[tresf]

@diizy thanks for taking the time to explain. I share the same beliefs in regards to keeping generic sounds as it provides a boilerplate for our users. I also believe having a sample kick (high hat, etc) is extremely important from the perspective of basic synthesis.

[StakeoutPunch]

I will go back to the drawing board and update once I complete those changes.

On a side note, I put spacebass back in on my last commit.

[diizy]

I once made a pretty good kick preset for 3xosc. I also wrote a forum tutorial about it. It's at least better than the current "kicks" so maybe it could be used to replace those...

http://lmms.io/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1108

[tresf]

http://lmms.io/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1108

@Sti2nd, would that fit somewhere in the wiki?

-Tres

[StakeoutPunch]

We agreed to not using folders, but could we make an exception to a drum preset folder?

[diizy]

On 08/28/2014 08:04 PM, StakeoutPunch wrote:

We agreed to not using folders, but could we make an exception to a
drum preset folder?

Eh, I don't know if there's much point if there's just going to be one
or maybe a couple of them at most.

[Sti2nd]

If there is a complete drumset with TripleOSC (kick, snare, stick/rim, hihat, crash, tom), then it will be better arrangement to have them in a folder. #Labelspleasefalldownfromthesky

@diizy @tresf It fits like a hand in a glove http://lmms.sourceforge.net/wiki/index.php/1.0:Making_Triple-Oscillator_Patches

[tresf]

It fits like a hand in a glove
Ah, very nice.

If there is a complete drumset with TripleOSC (kick, snare, stick/rim,

hihat, crash, tom), then it will be better arrangement to have them in a
folder. #Labelspleasefalldownfromthesky

Even then I'd tend to agree with Vesa, unless it's a large collection, it
doesn't serve much of a purpose in its own folder yet. You could easily do
some common prefix to group them together... (you get the point)

drumpack_hh1.xpf
drumpack_hh2.xpf
drumpack_kick1.xpf
drumpack_kick2.xpf

[tresf]

xpf rather... 🐍

drumpack_hh1.xpf
drumpack_hh2.xpf
drumpack_kick1.xpf
drumpack_kick2.xpf

[tobydox]

There's no magic about the CONTRIBUTORS file which is displayed in the
"Involved"-tab. The file is generated when running CMake. The only
requirements is that Git is available and the source tree has been cloned
from git repository (i.e. contains a ".git" folder). Search for
"CONTRIBUTORS" in CMakeLists.txt for more details :-)

The AUTHORS file is maintained manually so everyone with notable
contributions is welcome to add hisself to that file via a regular commit.

[tresf]

There's no magic about the CONTRIBUTORS file which is displayed in the
"Involved"-tab. The file is generated when running CMake. The only
requirements is that Git is available and the source tree has been cloned
from git repository (i.e. contains a ".git" folder). Search for
"CONTRIBUTORS" in CMakeLists.txt for more details :-)

Yes, I actually came across that very line searching for the EXPORT stuff. I meant to leave a compliment for that but had lost track of where I had left that comment. 🚋 Very nice!

[StakeoutPunch]

I just thought of a couple of points I want to make:

Kick 2 - yes we have kicker, so what? By that logic, we shouldn't have any of your presets either because they can all be made with synths other than 3xosc...

First off, that is a pretty rude comparison. If I could have just as easily made them in something other than 3osc I would have because then people wouldn't be whining about there already being a gajillion presets, then complaining more when some are removed.That is also a catch 22 statement, it is an unsolvable condition. Most synths can create the same basic sounds, so why include any basic presets? Any logic can be used in any format to suit any need when people are opinionated rather than objective.

if we remove these, forums will be flooded with posts asking how to make that trance sound...

While I can agree that users want generic sounds, they more than likely don't want 5 of the same clipping thing. Not to say those patches were identical, but they could certainly be more varied than just three saw waveforms with basic filtering. There is also a companion statement you left out: Users also want complex presets so they can study and reverse engineer them. There is a balance between them, and I was just trying to even it out.

At any rate if it means this whole thing will move quicker, I'll add all those presets back into my pull request and supply a few drum presets as well. Then maybe we can move along.

[diizy]

On 08/30/2014 09:20 AM, StakeoutPunch wrote:

I just thought of a couple of points I want to make:

Kick 2 - yes we have kicker, so what? By that logic, we shouldn't
have any of your presets either because they can all be made with
synths other than 3xosc...

First off, that is a pretty rude comparison. If I could have just as
easily made them in something other than 3osc I would have because
then people wouldn't be whining about there already being a gajillion
presets, then complaining more when some are removed.That is also a
catch 22 statement, it is an unsolvable condition. Most synths can
create the same basic sounds, so why include any basic presets? Any
logic can be used in any format to suit any need when people are
opinionated rather than objective.

The point is, that I think it's beneficial to have some drum presets
done in TripleOsc, because those can really show people some interesting
and original ways to use the synth, and actually teach them a couple of
things about sound synthesis.

Yes we have Kicker, which is much more suited for creating kickdrums,
but Kicker sort of abstracts most of the synthesis part away, and using
kicker for kicks doesn't really teach you much. With 3xosc, you can
study the preset and actually see how a drum sound can be built with it.

But yeah, the current 3xosc kicks are pretty weak and could be replaced
with better drum presets.

if we remove these, forums will be flooded with posts asking how
to make that trance sound...

While I can agree that users want generic sounds, they more than
likely don't want 5 of the same clipping thing. Not to say those
patches were identical, but they could certainly be more varied than
just three saw waveforms with basic filtering. There is also a
companion statement you left out: Users also want complex presets so
they can study and reverse engineer them. There is a balance between
them, and I was just trying to even it out.

At any rate if it means this whole thing will move quicker, I'll add
all those presets back into my pull request and supply a few drum
presets as well. Then maybe we can move along.

Fair enough.

[StakeoutPunch]

Updated: Added back requested presets, added 5 drum presets.

@diizy @tresf

[diizy]

Cool