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Page Navigation #17
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User story: "As an end user page navigation is a high priority for me, especially in education an academic titles. I can reliably navigate to the text where the print page begins, and I am able to include page numbers in citations." |
Hi @ways2read @gregoriopellegrino @LauraB7 , This is Ramanjulu from Adobe we are following this syntax
And see that there are no issues reported from the Ace by DAISY tool Could you please kindly confirm if this is in the expected lines? |
Some notes, @raman211:
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@laurab Could you please confirm if this looks good enough, except for the localization part of the header? Thanks, |
That works! |
@raman211 A small warning: in the screenshot you posted, the It therefore needs the double attribute |
I suppose this issue is about page list functionality for reflowable epubs in Indesign, since fixed layout already has it. It's great it this is underway! This is a feature many publishers will appreciate. Some notes on the suggestions above:
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@ways2read , were you able to install 19.2? |
I kept checking and my 19.2 update arrived on Monday. Thanks for checking! |
@gregoriopellegrino @ways2read @jonaslil @LauraB7 Attaching one sample document with the PageBreak Markers here With this, we see one accessibility issue reported with the ACE tool asking for the ISBN Could you please share your thoughts on, how the user interface should be for passing on the ISBN number and, also Sample TOC with the pagination on the Reflowable document Thanks, |
Dear @raman211 ,
Regarding the metadata field for reference to the paginated version, we are reasoning about it and I will get back to you shortly. |
@raman211 wrote "Could you please share your thoughts on, how the user interface should be for passing on the ISBN number and, also If there should be a checkbox to allow the pagination for the Reflowable document." We propose adding a checkbox in the export wizard, possibly labeled as "Create page navigation" which would control the creation of the pagelist and pagebreaks. By default, this checkbox would be flagged. This setting could be positioned under the General section where the navigation TOC settings are located. We think this label would benefit from a bit more explanation for the user. How to do this? In the Export Adobe PDF / Advanced dialogue there are a couple of techniques. In one area there is an information icon and the text next to it. There is also the description box at the bottom, and the user hovers the mouse pointer over the option to display the description. However this is done, we prose the explanation "This will include hidden references to page numbers and create a page list. Recommended so that the reader can refer to the page numbers from the print edition or navigate in the ebook to a print page position." When the checkbox is selected, a field to enter the pageBreakSource would be displayed, suggesting the structure "urn:isbn:xxxxxxxxxxxxx". The page break source field should include three possibilities as outlined in the W3C's page source ID guidelines :
Please note: Ace by DAISY might currently flag an error if the pageBreakSource field is used, instead of dc:source. However, the developers are working on updating the application to align with these guidelines. |
@ways2read , We appreciate your feedback. However, as we are nearing the final dates for the implementation phase, we regret to inform you that we will not be able to accommodate the changes to provide the option to add ISBN in this release. We will aim to address this in our next release. |
Hi @gregoriopellegrino @ways2read @LauraB7 @CircularKen @jonaslil , The feature is available in the latest InDesign PreRelease of 19.4 Thanks, |
Thanks @raman211, it seems like an encouraging start, but we have identified several bugs. I'll try to report them below, if needed we can schedule a call or exchange some test files to test with.
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We discussed blank pages a couple of times in the last epub revision. See w3c/epub-specs#1501 and w3c/epub-specs#1502 That's why for the accessibility objectives for markers and the page list we say:
In other words, both approaches are fine but you need to be consistent. If you're omitting blank page markers, then you shouldn't be listing the pages in the page list as where are the links going? Or you could add the markers so that the links aren't broken. The one unresolved question if you opt to add the markers is whether there should be some indicator that the page is blank. We seemed to be thinking that aria-describedby could be used for that (e.g., link it to a hidden element with some text like "this page intentionally left blank"). But that's not a requirement to do. |
Hi @gregoriopellegrino @mattgarrish, We have addressed the following items already, but unfortunately those were not part of the builds shared, as these were fixed later
The items need clarity:
Need a file or sample code snippet to see the issue.
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@gregoriopellegrino Another PreRelease build ID19.4#48 is avaiable now, which has the fixes mentioned above Thanks, |
Please file a JIRA ticket in case you find a bug in our implementation OR you need some enhancements/improvements. That way, you'll have visibility into the latest updates on that issue. |
I have done some tests with the latest prerelease build, which I am reporting here on behalf of the group. I also shared some sample files with @Racmathu.
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@jonaslil Thank You so much for your valuable feedback and for sharing the files to validate the scenarios as well. We have addressed all the issues except for one known issue with a new sub-paragraph landing on the following page start. Thanks, |
Thanks @raman211 when do you plan to release a new PR where we can test the improvements? |
Hi All, We have release latest PR with the above requested fixes. Request everyone to check and share the feedback as soon as possible. Thanks, |
Hi @gregoriopellegrino @ways2read @LauraB7 @jonaslil |
Hi @gregoriopellegrino @ways2read @LauraB7 @awkawk @jonaslil Please find the changes in the ID19.4 release builds, which are available for the public now. |
Dear @raman211 ,
Thanks |
Thank you so much, for your valuable feedback, Please find my response below for the above feedback.
Thanks, |
Dear @raman211,
Ok, we'll test the Pre-Release as soon as it becomes available.
As you have already done for the pagelist in the navigation document: the label for the different pages in the pagelist is correct, the same label should be inserted in the pagebreaks within the text.
Okay, let's wait. |
I've found a nasty, repeatable scripting bug related to page navigation in 19.4: In InDesign 19.4 on macOS 14.4.1, the document.epubExportPreferences.epubCreatePageNavigation and book.epubExportPreferences.epubCreatePageNavigation properties are supposed to allow scripts to toggle the reflowable EPUB "page navigation" option on and off. However, only the document.epubExportPreferences.epubCreatePageNavigation property functions properly. The book.epubExportPreferences.epubCreatePageNavigation doesn't do anything. Regardless of whether it is "true" or "false", the output always includes the page break markers when outputting reflowable ePub from a book file via scripting. I have several client workflows that will require omitting the page navigation. This is a critical bug for us. |
@gilbertconsult Thanks for reporting the bug, we will address this one ASAP. |
Dear @raman211, Currently, we are running the InDesign Pre-Release 19.5 (Mainline CI #f95bd09) version on our machines. Thanks |
Dear @gregoriopellegrino @ways2read @LauraB7 @gilbertconsult We have dropped latest PR 19.5.0.58 build. Please test the fix and give your valuable feedback. We will be waiting to hear from you. |
PR 19.5.0.58 seems to resolve the problem I reported on May 10. Thank you! |
As discussed in yesterday's call, two things still need attention:
The output in the epub metadata should use the pageBreakSource property. See Examples in the W3C report on Page Source Identification and DAISY knowledge base, Page Source. |
Good morning all, I have recently created an EPUB using the Book Panel and the 19.4 page list function, and received over 700 errors from Ace by DAISY due to the page IDs in the page list not matching the IDs assigned to the page breaks in the individual documents. @gregoriopellegrino and @jonaslil have noted the inclusion of dashes in the mark-up and I am providing some extra information and evidence below to show the page list exported from InDesign for this particular book and the edited page list that has now passed Ace. The InDesign-generated page IDs in the chapters are based on the page number within that document (restarting from 1 in each document in the Book Panel) and the number of times that page number has appeared in the EPUB. Page numbers that only appear once, such as the last pages in particularly long chapters, do not have a dash or second part to the ID. In this book, the first page 1 appears in Part 1 because the frontmatter uses roman numerals; the Part title pages are two-page documents and the second page is intentionally left blank (hence the jump in numbering in the edited example below between pages 95 and 96). This may have been resolved in the developments for 19.5 but I hope this information may be of interest. InDesign-exported page list code for chapter 4: Edited page list for Chapter 4 that passes Ace by DAISY: |
Dear @bethanrichard, thanks for this feedback. I would ask you to continue the discussion via email, mine is [email protected] I would ask you to have Ace's exact error and the EPUB file exported from InDesign that generates the error. Also, are you using the latest version of InDesign? |
Thanks @bethanrichard Dear @raman211, The generated EPUB reports errors in both EPUBCheck validation (Fragment identifier is not defined) and Ace by DAISY validation (epub-pagelist-broken). |
Thanks @gregoriopellegrino for the observation. We have logged bug internally and will try to accommodate the fix with this MAX release. |
@awkawk @gregoriopellegrino @ways2read @LauraB7 @jonaslil We have release InDesign 20.0.0.55 PR build. This includes ISBN support as discussed above. Please do check and provide feedback if any |
@awkawk @gregoriopellegrino @ways2read @LauraB7 @jonaslil please do share your feedback so that if anything needs to be done, we can try to accomodate it in MAX. |
We’re pleased to see the addition of a dropdown menu and input field for specifying the Pagination Source. While we’re happy with the general design, there are a few areas for improvement. The main issue is that users aren’t given guidance on entering the ISBN in the right format. Specifically:
Other issues related to the Pagination Source feature:
We have also noted that the problem with page lists not being generated correctly when the EPUB is created from a book file is still present. |
@jonaslil We have incorporated the above feedback ()#17 (comment)) in the latest InDesign pre-release build (#20.86) |
@raman211 We have tested the fixes implemented in the latest InDesign pre-release build (20.86), and I'm pleased to confirm that the issues reported in #17 (comment) have been resolved. Thank you for addressing these concerns. |
Knowledge base reference: http://kb.daisy.org/publishing/docs/navigation/pagelist.html
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