Confusing inconsistencies between stages of the REC track for documents and for amendments #938
Comments
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I think aligning the terminology between the two makes sense, and making it possible to work an amendment through the same steps as REC track also makes sense... But I think this is too heavyweight for simple corrections. There needs to be some way to batch things into fewer stages and fewer transitions. |
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I'm not sure where you draw that conclusion from. Compared to the current amendment process, assuming linear progression:
The only thing that increases is that the Team verification is split into two, like on the REC track, where wide review needs and issues having been addressed to be verified before entering the Candidate stage (currently called Proposed) rather than after. Aside from that (which I'd argue is the correct thing to do anyway), assuming linear progression, the workload is identical. If we assume that an amendment will be iterated upon a few times before reaching its final maturity, then the story is arguably even better. In either case, iterating at the level of maturity (currently called Candidate, would be Draft) has no administrative cost, and that isn't changing. But under the current process, iterating on an amendment at the second level of maturity (currently called Proposed, would be Candidate) triggers an AC Review every time, which is rather heavy, while under the proposed approach, it would instead trigger a Team verification every time, which is much lighter, and keep the AC Review as the final step, intended to happen only once, after implementation experience is demonstrated. So I think the assertion that this is too heavy is unfounded. It it approximately the same as the current approach, and arguably lighter if you iterate. And much less confusing since the sames steps are called the same thing. And with AC-Review as the last step, as it should be. If we really want to cut steps, I suppose we could keep almost what I suggested, yet remove the team verification between Draft Amendment and Candidate Amendment (and move the requirement to verify wide review to the later transition call). Click to see what this looks like as a graphgraph TB;
t3[Yet another possible Amendment Process]@{shape: doc} ~~~ DA
DA(["**Draft** Amendment"])-->|Group Decision| CA([**Candidate** Amendment]) -->|Automatic| excl-A[[Call for Exclusion]]
excl-A -->|Group Decision| CA-check[[
Transition request:
wide review
implementation experience
issues formally addressed
]]-->|Team Verification| AC-rev-A[[AC-Review]]-->|W3C Decision| REC-A([Fold into **W3C Recommendation**])
CA:::PP-PRD
REC-A:::PP-PRD
REC-A:::PP-REC
DA:::PP-WD
classDef PP-WD fill:#7cf,stroke:#050
classDef PP-PRD fill:#7fc,stroke:#050
classDef PP-REC stroke-width:4px;
REC-A ~~~ Legend
subgraph Legend [Patent Policy States]
direction TB
PWD([Working Draft]):::PP-WD
PRD([Patent Review Draft]):::PP-PRD
end
The downside (which is already true of amendments in the current Process, but I think it's bad) is that this means that things can be called Candidate or Proposed without any entry criteria other than group consensus, which is not the case on the normal REC track. I think that's a bug to fix, not a feature to keep. |
I think that's appropriate for corrections. Wide review needs to be appropriately wide, and invoking all of the machinery that's needed for a new feature or a new spec for a handful of corrections is unnecessary work for everyone. |
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I can see that for corrections. What about additions? |
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I'm fine with requiring the full stack for additions. It seems appropriate. |
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I that case, I think we should keep the Team verification between Draft amendments and Candidate amendments, but indicate that the expectations for wide review depend on the nature of the changes, and may be waived for corrections, especially when they're not extensively modifying large swaths of the spec |
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After off-line discussion with @fantasai, here's where we stand: Goals:
Proposal:
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removing "Agenda+" for now. This is absolutely something I want to pursue, but not in the narrow time window that remains for Process 2025. |
frivoal
removed
the
Agenda+
Foreword:
This issue is an attempt at simplifying the Process of REC maintenance using amendments. This is orthogonal to, and doesn't address:
These will still need to be looked into separately. But I think the proposal I have here would still be a meaningful step forward in addressing the general confusion surrounding this part of the process, as expressed in #700 and in most discussions we have about this part of the Process.
During Process 2020, when the notion of Amendments was introduced, we tried to make working with Amendment more lightweight than the full REC track, and instead of having the equivalent of the 4 stages ((FP)WD->CR->PR->REC) for the amendments, we collapsed in into 3: Candidate Amendments->Proposed Amendments->REC
However, having a different number of stages also meant that the conditions to be fulfilled along the way couldn't be attached to the exact same stages. So we re-giggled them so that in order to reach REC, all the same requirements would be fulfilled, but in a somewhat different order, which we attempted to make simpler / more lightweight.
Even though we successfully did preserve all the requirements of a REC before amendments could be folded into the REC, the result ended up being confusing for several reasons:
Since then, we have retired Proposed Recommendation from the REC track. So now, both the document Process and the current Amendment process have the same number of stages, but they're still not the same stages, and the criticism above still applies.
However, the progression that we now have for Documents is a lot simpler than the one for Amendments, and in line with the traditional way of doing things. I think we should align the Amendment process with it:
The graphic below describes, in its middle column, the REC track for documents. The left column is the current amendment Process, which is visibly very different. The right column is the alternative amendment process I am suggesting here. I hope this makes it clear that anyone familiar with the REC track progression will have a much more intuitive time with the proposal than with the current approach. (This graph omits some details, including the fact that you can iterate at some stages before moving forward; this would make the graph more busy without adding information relevant to the question at hand.)
graph TB; t1[Current Amendment Process]@{shape: doc} ~~~ CA-l CA-l(["**Candidate** Amendment"])--->|Group Decision| PA([**Proposed** Amendment]) -->|Automatic| excl-A-l[[Call for Exclusion]] PA -->|Automatic| AC-rev-A-l subgraph lc[Last Call for Review of Proposed Amendments] excl-A-l AC-rev-A-l end excl-A-l --> merge-2 AC-rev-A-l[[AC-Review]] -->|W3C Decision| merge-2@{shape: f-circ} merge-2-->|Group Decision| CA-check-l[[ Transition request: wide review issues formally addressed implementation experience ]]-->|Team Verification| REC-A-l([Fold into **W3C Recommendation**]) t2[Document Process]@{shape: doc} ~~~ WD WD([Working **Draft**])-->|Group Decision| WD-check[[ Transition request: wide review issues formally addressed ]] WD-check-->|Team Verification| CR([**Candidate** Recommendation]) -->|Automatic| excl[[Call for Exclusion]] excl -->|Group Decision| CR-check[[ Transition request: implementation experience issues formally addressed ]]-->|Team Verification| AC-rev[[AC-Review]]-->|W3C Decision| REC([**W3C Recommendation**]) t3[Suggested Amendment Process]@{shape: doc} ~~~ DA DA(["**Draft** Amendment"])-->|Group Decision| DA-check[[ Transition request: wide review issues formally addressed ]] DA-check-->|Team Verification| CA([**Candidate** Amendment]) -->|Automatic| excl-A[[Call for Exclusion]] excl-A -->|Group Decision| CA-check[[ Transition request: implementation experience issues formally addressed ]]-->|Team Verification| AC-rev-A[[AC-Review]]-->|W3C Decision| REC-A([Fold into **W3C Recommendation**]) CR:::PP-PRD CA:::PP-PRD CA-l:::PP-WD PA:::PP-PRD REC:::PP-PRD REC-A:::PP-PRD REC-A:::PP-REC REC-A-l:::PP-REC REC-A-l:::PP-PRD REC:::PP-REC WD:::PP-WD DA:::PP-WD classDef PP-WD fill:#7cf,stroke:#050 classDef PP-PRD fill:#7fc,stroke:#050 classDef PP-REC stroke-width:4px; REC ~~~ Legend subgraph Legend [Patent Policy States] direction TB PWD([Working Draft]):::PP-WD PRD([Patent Review Draft]):::PP-PRD endFor the curious: same graphic, with iterations at the same stage and regressions included
graph TB; t1[Current Amendment Process]@{shape: doc} ~~~ CA-l CA-l(["**Candidate** Amendment"])--->|Group Decision| PA([**Proposed** Amendment]) -->|Automatic| excl-A-l[[Call for Exclusion]] PA -->|Automatic| AC-rev-A-l subgraph lc[Last Call for Review of Proposed Amendments] excl-A-l AC-rev-A-l end excl-A-l --> merge-2 AC-rev-A-l[[AC-Review]] -->|W3C Decision| merge-2@{shape: f-circ} merge-2-->|Group Decision| CA-check-l[[ Transition request: wide review issues formally addressed implementation experience ]]--->|Team Verification| REC-A-l([Fold into **W3C Recommendation**]) merge-2 .->|Revise| PA & CA-l t2[Document Process]@{shape: doc} ~~~ WD WD([Working **Draft**])-->|Group Decision| WD-check[[ Transition request: wide review issues formally addressed ]] WD-check-->|Team Verification| CR([**Candidate** Recommendation]) -->|Automatic| excl[[Call for Exclusion]] excl -->merge-3@{shape: f-circ} -->|Group Decision| CR-check[[ Transition request: implementation experience issues formally addressed ]]-->|Team Verification| AC-rev[[AC-Review]]-->|W3C Decision| REC([**W3C Recommendation**]) merge-3 .->|Revise| WD-check & WD t3[Suggested Amendment Process]@{shape: doc} ~~~ DA DA(["**Draft** Amendment"])-->|Group Decision| DA-check[[ Transition request: wide review issues formally addressed ]] DA-check-->|Team Verification| CA([**Candidate** Amendment]) -->|Automatic| excl-A[[Call for Exclusion]] excl-A -->merge-4@{shape: f-circ} -->|Group Decision| CA-check[[ Transition request: implementation experience issues formally addressed ]]-->|Team Verification| AC-rev-A[[AC-Review]]-->|W3C Decision| REC-A([Fold into **W3C Recommendation**]) merge-4 .->|Revise| DA-check & DA CR:::PP-PRD CA:::PP-PRD CA-l:::PP-WD PA:::PP-PRD REC:::PP-PRD REC-A:::PP-PRD REC-A:::PP-REC REC-A-l:::PP-REC REC-A-l:::PP-PRD REC:::PP-REC WD:::PP-WD DA:::PP-WD classDef PP-WD fill:#7cf,stroke:#050 classDef PP-PRD fill:#7fc,stroke:#050 classDef PP-REC stroke-width:4px; REC ~~~ Legend subgraph Legend [Patent Policy States] direction TB PWD([Working Draft]):::PP-WD PRD([Patent Review Draft]):::PP-PRD endThe text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered: