Add Aria-repeated #1188

aleventhal · 2020-02-03T15:12:07Z

closes issue 1044

joanmarie

Thanks for doing this! Some nits and a couple of wording changes for your consideration.

joanmarie · 2020-02-03T18:01:09Z

index.html

@@ -13471,6 +13535,7 @@ <h2>Substantive changes targetted for the 1.3 release</h2>
 		<h2>Substantive changes since the last public working draft</h2>
 		<ul>
 			<!-- EdNote: After each WD publish, move contents of this list into the next one below. -->
+			<li>03-Feb-2020: Add <pref>aria-repeated</pref>.</li>


Thanks for adding the ChangeLog entry! Based on experience, this tends to result in merge conflicts because things don't land right away and/or in the expected order. Therefore, James and I typically do the ChangeLog after. (I'm not saying don't include it; merely giving you the option.)

joanmarie · 2020-02-03T18:03:53Z

Looks like my other comments got lost :( I'll rewrite.

joanmarie · 2020-02-03T18:08:17Z

index.html

+			<div class="property-description">
+				<p>Indicates content is repeated for visual purposes.</p>
+				<p>The <code>aria-repeated</code> helps indicate that content is repeated, and that presenting the repeated content to assistive technology users could produce underesirable redundancy in the output. Unlike <pref>aria-hidden</pref>, <code>aria-repeated</code> content may be presented by screen readers to users when requested by the user.</p>
+				<p>Authors SHOULD NOT use <code>aria-repeated</code> on the very first instance of the repeated content, and SHOULD use <code>aria-repeated</code> on subsequent redundant instances of the same content. Setting <code>aria-repeated</code> on a subtree indicates the entire subtree is redundant, and it cannot be reversed within that subtree by setting <code>aria-repeated="false"</code> on a descendant.</p>


What if the very first instance of the repeated content is a pull quote which, for aesthetic reasons, appears first?

In addition, I assume that authors MAY use aria-repeated on the very first instance of the repeated content -- IF they set it to false.

Therefore what about something in the ballpark of:

Authors SHOULD only set <code>aria-repeated</code> to <code>true</code> on redundant instances of content because assistive technologies MAY skip over these instances during presentation to the user.

Ok, I took this but wanted to keep the part about aria-repeated=false.
Could we actually disallow the false value completely? I don't see how it's useful.

I'm good with this change, but I'm not resolving the conversation yet because you ask about disallowing the false value completely. That might be a discussion worth having with the group.

I personally think disallowing false on a boolean would be weird. So either false is the default value that no one uses because why bother? Or aria-repeated shouldn't be a boolean. IMHO.

If I have a submit button at the beginning and one at the end of a form, wouldn't it be better to use aria-repeated=true on the first submit button?

Probably should tell authors not to apply it to elements that contain interactive content. I would not want my screen reader to hide either submit button regardless of what repeated is set to.

index.html

joanmarie · 2020-02-04T01:04:10Z

index.html

+			<pdef>aria-repeated</pdef>
+			<div class="property-description">
+				<p>Indicates content is repeated for visual purposes.</p>
+				<p>The <code>aria-repeated</code> helps indicate that content is repeated, and that presenting the repeated content to assistive technology users could produce underesirable redundancy in the output. Unlike <pref>aria-hidden</pref>, <code>aria-repeated</code> content may be presented by screen readers to users when requested by the user.</p>


Nit: "The aria-repeated property helps..." (Or delete the "The")

joanmarie · 2020-02-04T01:06:06Z

index.html

+				<p>Indicates content is repeated for visual purposes.</p>
+				<p>The <code>aria-repeated</code> helps indicate that content is repeated, and that presenting the repeated content to assistive technology users could produce underesirable redundancy in the output. Unlike <pref>aria-hidden</pref>, <code>aria-repeated</code> content may be presented by screen readers to users when requested by the user.</p>
+				<p>Authors SHOULD only set <code>aria-repeated</code> to <code>true</code> on redundant instances of content because assistive technologies MAY skip
+			  over these instances during presentation to the user. Setting <code>aria-repeated</code> on a subtree indicates the entire subtree is redundant. If <code>aria-repeated</code> is true for a subtree, it cannot be reversed within that subtree by setting <code>aria-repeated</code> to false on a descendant.</p>


Nit: code tags for "true" and "false" since you're using them as values.

joanmarie · 2020-02-04T01:07:04Z

index.html

+					<li>Repeated table header rows</li>
+					<li>Pull quote</li>
+				</ul>
+				<p>Because the repeated content may be important in some scenarios, e.g. during proofreading, assistive technologies MAY provide options so that screen readers users can choose whether or not to filter <code>aria-repeated</code> content out of the current view.</p>


s/screen readers users/screen reader users/

JAWS-test · 2020-02-04T02:36:35Z

What if area with aria-repeated=true contains interactive elements? These should always be output correctly when navigating with the tab key, right? Skipping the areas should only be done during linear reading. This may need to be added.

carmacleod · 2020-02-04T03:07:07Z

index.html

+			<pdef>aria-repeated</pdef>
+			<div class="property-description">
+				<p>Indicates content is repeated for visual purposes.</p>
+				<p>The <code>aria-repeated</code> helps indicate that content is repeated, and that presenting the repeated content to assistive technology users could produce underesirable redundancy in the output. Unlike <pref>aria-hidden</pref>, <code>aria-repeated</code> content may be presented by screen readers to users when requested by the user.</p>


content may be presented by screen readers

If it's a normative "may" (which is what I think you meant?) then it needs to be MAY.
If not, then please change it to something like:

content can be presented by screen readers

carmacleod · 2020-02-04T03:17:15Z

index.html

+					<li>Repeated table header rows</li>
+					<li>Pull quote</li>
+				</ul>
+				<p>Because the repeated content may be important in some scenarios, e.g. during proofreading, assistive technologies MAY provide options so that screen readers users can choose whether or not to filter <code>aria-repeated</code> content out of the current view.</p>


repeated content may be important

This instance of lowercase 'may' isn't normative, but we have recently decided to try not to use lowercase 'may', 'must' or 'should' in the prose just in case it confuses anyone. (There's usually a decent alternative word that doesn't mess up the meaning). So the above could be rewritten as either:

repeated content might be important

or:

repeated content can be important

carmacleod · 2020-02-04T03:20:24Z

index.html

+			<pdef>aria-repeated</pdef>
+			<div class="property-description">
+				<p>Indicates content is repeated for visual purposes.</p>
+				<p>The <code>aria-repeated</code> helps indicate that content is repeated, and that presenting the repeated content to assistive technology users could produce underesirable redundancy in the output. Unlike <pref>aria-hidden</pref>, <code>aria-repeated</code> content may be presented by screen readers to users when requested by the user.</p>


Suggested change

<p>The <code>aria-repeated</code> helps indicate that content is repeated, and that presenting the repeated content to assistive technology users could produce underesirable redundancy in the output. Unlike <pref>aria-hidden</pref>, <code>aria-repeated</code> content may be presented by screen readers to users when requested by the user.</p>

<p>The <code>aria-repeated</code> helps indicate that content is repeated, and that presenting the repeated content to assistive technology users could produce undesirable redundancy in the output. Unlike <pref>aria-hidden</pref>, <code>aria-repeated</code> content may be presented by screen readers to users when requested by the user.</p>

carmacleod · 2020-02-04T03:25:15Z

index.html

+			  over these instances during presentation to the user. Setting <code>aria-repeated</code> on a subtree indicates the entire subtree is redundant. If <code>aria-repeated</code> is true for a subtree, it cannot be reversed within that subtree by setting <code>aria-repeated</code> to false on a descendant.</p>
+ 				<p>Here are some examples of repeated content:</p>
+				<ul>
+					<li>Running headers and footer sections, repeated on each page</li>


Suggested change

<li>Running headers and footer sections, repeated on each page</li>

<li>Running header and footer sections, repeated on each page</li>

carmacleod · 2020-02-04T04:57:50Z

Should complementary role support aria-repeated as well?
The doc-pullquote example in DPUB-ARIA uses an html aside to contain the repeated quote.

mcking65 · 2020-02-07T03:06:48Z

I have quite a few editorial comments, but it is hard to figure out what they ought to be with all the unresolved suggestions. So, I'll wait on the word-smithing.

Other concerns:

I'm concerned about it being applied to interactive content. Clearly, a link in a footnote is not a concern, but buttons in forms, etc. could be problematic. We need some kind of author SHOULD NOT.
Which roles should support it? Seems like group and generic would be naturals, but not region. If regions are being repeated, then I'd suggest that the region role is not being used correctly.

carmacleod · 2020-02-07T03:45:25Z

If regions are being repeated, then I'd suggest that the region role is not being used correctly.

Good point @mcking65. Ignore my previous question about whether complementary role should support aria-repeated - it shouldn't. If a user doesn't want to hear repeated content, then they don't want it to be a landmark, either.

I guess the DPUB-ARIA doc-pullquote example should probably use a div instead of an aside.

Hmmm, that example currently uses aria-hidden to hide the repeated aside from AT. I wonder what it means to use aria-hidden on a landmark? They seem to be in conflict. Do AT respect the landmark, or the aria-hidden?

mcking65 · 2020-02-07T06:15:28Z

@carmacleod wrote:

Hmmm, that example currently uses aria-hidden to hide the repeated aside from AT. I wonder what it means to use aria-hidden on a landmark? They seem to be in conflict. Do AT respect the landmark, or the aria-hidden?

Nothing overrides aria-hidden. However, there are the unspecified author error recovery behaviors where focusability overrides naming, not readability, in some browsers that we discussed today.

mcking65 · 2020-02-07T06:36:49Z

I wonder if we have the right name on this feature. Is this really limited to completely redundant content?

The use cases all seem related to enabling some kind of reader mode. The objective seems to be to indicate that certain content should be ignored when in that kind of mode.

What if it were ...

aria-skipwhenreading: Indicates content that assistive technologies may ignore when in a continuous or simplified reading mode.

Some assistive technologies have modes that enable users to read continuously without having to continuously interact with their device. Similarly, some browsers have reader views that focus the user on the primary content. This property enables authors to indicate which content is safe to omit when in such a mode or view. Examples of such content are:

Page headers and footers in a book

Pull quotes
3 ...

jongund · 2020-02-07T14:29:56Z

Maybe we need something more like aria-sameas with a reference to what it is the same as. More likely that the author would not abuse and screen readers would have more information.

aleventhal · 2020-02-07T19:34:24Z

I want to wait on resolving suggestions until we all talk about it during our weekly meeting.

aleventhal · 2020-02-07T19:34:56Z

Maybe we need something more like aria-sameas with a reference to what it is the same as. More likely that the author would not abuse and screen readers would have more information.

This is interesting

aleventhal · 2020-02-07T19:37:01Z

aria-skipwhenreading

This might be my favorite.

jongund · 2020-02-07T19:55:43Z

I think we want to be a little bit careful about giving authors the ability to tell ATs to skip content. I think ARIA should be more descriptive rather than prescriptive. Let's provide information about the content and give the ATs good information to improve user experience.

aleventhal · 2020-02-07T20:16:54Z

I think we want to be a little bit careful about giving authors the ability to tell ATs to skip content. I think ARIA should be more descriptive rather than prescriptive. Let's provide information about the content and give the ATs good information to improve user experience.

I like that sentiment. I'm not sure if requiring us to be able to point to the id of the redundant content will really help:

In docs, the entire document is not always loaded, so the original running header may not be available to point to
Authors could just use a fake invisible offscreen object to point to
Authors can always use aria-hidden if they really want to have things not be read

At least with this proposed property (whatever we call it), the screen reader will be able to provide the user an option to read it anyway.

jnurthen · 2020-12-10T18:55:39Z

@aleventhal is this still needed? If not please close it.

aleventhal · 2020-12-10T18:59:23Z

I don't need it now that we have doc-pageheader, doc-pagefooter and doc-pagenum.
There were some use cases for this, but there were also some concerns about author misuse.

Add Aria-repeated

b18cb9b

closes issue 1044

aleventhal requested review from carmacleod, jnurthen, joanmarie and mcking65 February 3, 2020 15:12

Fix whitespace and add to interface

2243cfd

aleventhal mentioned this pull request Feb 3, 2020

Create property for repeated content #1044

Closed

aleventhal added 2 commits February 3, 2020 12:35

Clarify that the content may or may note be filtered by AT

06bb9e0

aria-hidden is related

b7e3f9d

joanmarie requested changes Feb 3, 2020

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Add Aria-repeated #1188

Add Aria-repeated #1188

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	<p>The <code>aria-repeated</code> helps indicate that content is repeated, and that presenting the repeated content to assistive technology users could produce underesirable redundancy in the output. Unlike <pref>aria-hidden</pref>, <code>aria-repeated</code> content may be presented by screen readers to users when requested by the user.</p>
	<p>The <code>aria-repeated</code> helps indicate that content is repeated, and that presenting the repeated content to assistive technology users could produce undesirable redundancy in the output. Unlike <pref>aria-hidden</pref>, <code>aria-repeated</code> content may be presented by screen readers to users when requested by the user.</p>

	<li>Running headers and footer sections, repeated on each page</li>
	<li>Running header and footer sections, repeated on each page</li>

Add Aria-repeated #1188

Add Aria-repeated #1188

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