Surge XT VST3 Menus crash Reason 12 Ventura (patched; reported to Reason)

[oimseng]

Bug Description:
Surge XT was promoted by Reason Studios during its VST3 update. The synth crashes Reason 12 almost instantly however on my machine. I have a Macbook Air M1 running Ventura 13.0.1 (22A400). Reason is running in Version 12.5d29 and build 14528.

Surge XT Version
Version: Surge XT 1.1.2.d3568a9
Build: 2022-11-01 @ 14:28:23 on 'Mac-1667312250086.local/pipeline' with 'AppleClang-13.0.0.13000029' using JUCE 6.1.6
System: macOS 64-bit VST3 on Apple M1 (Using Rosetta)
Host: Reason @ 44.1 kHz / 32 Sample Surge Block

• Version:
• Plugin Type: VST3
• Bitness: 64-bit

Reproduction Steps:
Steps to reproduce the behavior:

1. Open a an empty reason song
2. Add Surge XT
3. Click in the first Filter slot
4. Reason crashes to Desktop
5. Reason produces Warning that it crashed.
6. Reopen Reason
7. Load Surge XT
8. Click on anything but the filter slot
9. Works as expected.
10. click in the filter slot
11. Reason Crashes

Expected Behavior:
No crashing when accessing functions in Surge XT.

Screenshots:
non available

Computer Information (please complete the following!):
see description

Additional Information:
Add any other context about the problem here.

[baconpaul]

Does the standalone run? Or the AU in GarageBand? I’m wonde4ing if it is reason or Ventura or both.

[oimseng]

Only tried the VST3 version as I currently don't have an AU Host installed on my system. I will file a request there as well, from what i see in the crash report of reason the plugin produces an authentication failure which results in a bad kernel access erorr or something like that. Trying to locate the crash report.

[mkruselj]

Surge is not authenticating anything, though...

[oimseng]

Where can I find the crash logs from a certain app on Ventura?

[baconpaul]

Probably in the console application.

Also the standalone doesn’t require an au host. Does that run?

[oimseng]

Here is the Reason Crash Log.
Reason-2022-12-20-010604.pdf

[oimseng]

Will try to install and run it standalone tonight. Thanks for analysing the crash log.

[baconpaul]

Oh that’s an interesting stack. It looks like sxt asks reason for vst3 oaram menus and reason crashes

are you in touch with reason devs? Not many plugins use this api and I wonder if they have a bug

Did you click on a oaram when it crashes

installing and testing the standalone and testing in another host (even if it is just gb or a reaper trial) would be super useful. Or figuring out how we can get reason for mac nfr to test in the team here if you know their team.

[oimseng]

Yes I just sent them a bug report and included the link to this issue. Hoping they reach out soon. They promoted Surge XT in their latest update video and thats why I tried it out again after a few years. Yes I try to click on the UI element "box" for the first filter slot. When it crashes it once I tried to click there. Other parameters seem to be not as crash prone as the filter box.

[baconpaul]

Yeah I have tried to reach em through another route also but more help always helps!

[mkruselj]

Yeah looks like Reason people are not implementing the VST3 menus feature of it.

[baconpaul]

Right but it shouldn't crash!

I'll see if I can get an NFR and look but @oimseng can you let them know that the problem really seems to be we are trying to use their VST3 menu extensions and it crashes (or maybe has a bad lifetime?)

[oimseng]

Thanks for your replies. I will add this to their ticket. Hope they reach out soon for all of us :)

[oimseng]

Hi there, haven't heard from them, looks like I posted the bug into the wrong entry channel that is for third party developers only. Have you heard back from them?

[baconpaul]

I just submitted the NFR request today so have not heard yet. Will update here if I do hear anything.

[oimseng]

Ok let's wait and see. Hope they reach out. Guess they used the vst2 version in their video, can't imagine it just crashing like that on my machine only.

[baconpaul]

Maybe they didn’t use Mac

we don’t have a vst2 version. If the bug is what I think it is it could also be os specific.

[oimseng]

Hi Paul,
just let me know if I can do anything further, if you have an alpha built or anything i should test I am all open for it.
Thanks anyway for the awesome communicatio.

[oimseng]

Have you heard back from them?

[baconpaul]

I have not yet no.
let me check my junk folders tho

[baconpaul]

Yeah nothing but they may also be short staffed this week. I opened my ticket dec 22

I will ask again in the new year

[baconpaul]

The team has been back in touch and I am getting set up with Reason and their dev portal and stuff now. I don't know how long it will take me to get it diagnosed and reported, but just an update that something is happening (and they've been super friendly now they are back from holidays!)

[oimseng]

Hi Paul, that is awesome news, thank you very much. Yes they are very kind and friendly people over there. Looking forward to your findings. Happy New Year btw!

[baconpaul]

So running this version of reason I don't see a crash on surge menu

Can you let me know exactly how you make it crash and if you see the crash with that version?

Thanks!

[oimseng]

Hi Paul
yes I can reproduce the crash on my system.

1. Start Reason with a blank song
2. Drag Surge XT into the Rack panel of Reason
3. Open Surge XT instrument Editor in Reason.
4. Play a couple of Midi Notes.
5. While Playing or shortly after last played note select the filter menu drop down in Surge XT.
6. Reason Crashes.

[baconpaul]

OK! So my colleague (who is also an audio dev) did a debug build and found that, yes, reason 12 on macOS 13 is returning a bad pointer from this point of the VST3 API.

He added

juce::PopupMenu SurgeSynthEditor::hostMenuFor(Parameter *p)
{
    if (juce::PluginHostType().isReason())
        return {};

and the feature was gone but so was the crash. So what I'll do is

1. Put that in the hostMenuFor etc... functions and build a nightly. You can grab that and use surge
2. Open a bug report with the Reason beta program (which I'm part of) so they know there's a problem and they can use surge 1.1 or a hand build to test it

should be able to do 1 this weekend. I'll then rename this issue but leave it open in case reason team looks at it

Thanks for your patience.

[baconpaul]

OK step 1 was pretty easy to do and to test so I have it in. Since you are in switzerland and I assume you are not reading GitHub at 3am your time, when you wake up you should be able to grab a new nightly and have it work for you.

https://github.com/surge-synthesizer/releases-xt/releases/tag/Nightly

[baconpaul]

OK I've also reported this to reason in their beta program. So I think it is in their hands now.

Thanks for your patience. Let me know if the nightly works!

[mkruselj]

Ideally Reason fixes this on their side and we don't need to have a per host query to remove the feature...

[baconpaul]

Ideally Reason fixes this on their side and we don't need to have a per host query to remove the feature...

Yes

[oimseng]

Ha thank you guys so much, works :) Can access the menu, yay 🥇 . Awesome now I can explore the synth finally.

[baconpaul]

Great. I'm going to leave this open until at least I hear back from the Reason beta bug report team, but glad it works for you now. Enjoy surge!

[baconpaul]

Moving this to "currently unscheduled" as there's nothing we can do about it until we hear back from Reason now.

[oimseng]

Awesome, thanks again for your support!

[luzpaz]

Anyway to bump upstream Reason ticket ?

[baconpaul]

Oh reason reported back to me this is fixed in their betas a month or so ago. But I didn’t check. Someone needs to grab latest turn on the menus and see. Lemme bump this into 13 so I remember

[mkruselj]

I'll push a PR enabling the menus for Reason a bit later and ask @esselfortium to test.

[baconpaul]

@mkruselj you tested this in reason right and it worked? So lets close this.

[mkruselj]

I haven't but a friend did. And yes, let's 🙂