shelter_type quest

[mcliquid]

Fix #4418

• Probably it still needs a correction with the pictures, since not all licenses fit here.
• The Quest Icon is still provisional, I will try to adapt this better to the others.
• I have already tested the new Quest and look forward to feedback!

[westnordost]

Just a very rough preliminary review:

Choices:

The pictures look kind of odd - some seem to be very specific and I wouldn't know what exactly puts them apart. Is the field shelter only for animals or for humans too (people working on the field)? (Does it even matter? How is it different from an e.g. weather shelter? Should the field shelter not also protect from rain? Or from the sun?) What sets apart a gazebo from a picnic shelter? What sets apart a picnic shelter from a sun shelter? A weather shelter?
If possible, this should be selectable without long descriptions. This may not be possible. And it may not even be possible to come up with a resonable definition - but in that case, the tagging scheme is bad and it should not even be a quest.

In general, I have the feeling that shelter_type is one of those "free form" tags with a bottomless (and unordered) pit of possible values, which would somewhat disqualify it for a quest.

Pictures:

• try to find most representative pictures. E.g.: So, if the shelter is kunterbunt, it's a "basic hut"? The pictures should only show what each category differentiates it from the others and should have no other characteristics that could be mistaken for being relevant. This is the other hard part of creating (such) a quest. Finding good pictures.
• sources+licenses for pictures are missing
• the sizes for the pictures are not correct. It should be 384 for xxhdpi, 256 for xhdpi, 192 for hdpi, 128 for mdpi. Also, check if the JPEG compression quality is not unnecessarily high

[andrewharvey]

sad to see no support for rock_shelter, would you accept a contribution adding it?

[mcliquid]

• sources+licenses for pictures are missing

Hm, I have included it here. Is it the wrong file?

the sizes for the pictures are not correct.

ok, I've misunderstood the list here

In general, I have the feeling that shelter_type is one of those "free form" tags with a bottomless (and unordered) pit of possible values, which would somewhat disqualify it for a quest.

To make a long story short: Is it even worth working on the quest then? According to my understanding of your answer, it needs an intensive work in advance, which includes not only new images but also a complete rebuilding of the wiki page? And I have never dealt with tagging definition, wiki or tagging ML. Then I would rather only choose quests that already have the "new quest" approved flag.

sad to see no support for rock_shelter, would you accept a contribution adding it?

I used the top 9 values from Taginfo. rock_shelter is at position 10. To make the list work with the number of images, something else would have to be removed. Otherwise the list will probably be too long and complicated.

[matkoniecz]

In general, I have the feeling that shelter_type is one of those "free form" tags with a bottomless (and unordered) pit of possible values, which would somewhat disqualify it for a quest.

Still, there could be a limited set of values covering vast majority (like building value quest where some oddities remain for notes, but quest remains viable)

[mcliquid]

I have started a little research on Wikimedia and have to realize that it will be sometimes extremely difficult to show the differences only with pictures and a short title.
For example, I'm still not quite clear what the difference between Pavilion and Gazebo should be.

I will continue this on the weekend and then see what comes out.

[matkoniecz]

For example, I'm still not quite clear what the difference between Pavilion and Gazebo should be.

And trying to find out such things is a great way to discover badly defined tagging schemes (see my tagging list postings about taps and drinking fountains + OSM Wiki activity on related pages)

[westnordost]

To make a long story short: Is it even worth working on the quest then? According to my understanding of your answer, it needs an intensive work in advance, which includes not only new images but also a complete rebuilding of the wiki page? And I have never dealt with tagging definition, wiki or tagging ML. Then I would rather only choose quests that already have the "new quest" approved flag.

I'd say it is not worth working on it (further) until this point has been discussed. IMO Mateusz tagging of the issue as "new quest" was a little preliminary.

[mcliquid]

I got a little further with my research and would have alternative image suggestions for each value.
First, what is your opinion on this? Are these more suitable?

And if you like them, what would be the next step?

Edit: I have started a discussion here and here

value	image description	image	notes
public_transport	visible bus / train sign	image link	more modern look and bus sign in foreground
picnic_shelter	rain protection on picnic site	image link	better understanding of “picnic”
gazebo	octagonal or oval; no walls; solid roof	image link - second image link	shows the typical “second level”
weather_shelter	rain protection	image link - second image link	second one shows emergency access point too → focus on “bad weather”
lean_to	three walls, intended for camping?	image link - second image link	second one shows a tent → camping
pavilion	rectangular; no walls; solid roof	image link	wikipedia definition is more a building out of bricks instead a “open walled” shelter
basic_hut	shelter for sleeping, no fireplace	image link second image	both images show a open hut without door and no fireplace
sun_shelter	just a sun roof	image link	better resolution
field_shelter	protection “only” for animals	image link	better understanding of “animals only”
rock_shelter	like a cave	image link	better understanding of a shelter in a cave

[westnordost]

Most pictures are definitely better, however:

picnic_shelter

The picnic tables will barely be visible in the small picture displayed in the app

weather_shelter vs lean_to

So lean_to is not primarily a construction trait but made as a weather-for-overnight-stay shelter?

weather_shelter vs pavilion

So, the difference is that the former is defined by its function and the latter is defined by its architecture? (Because obviously the latter also protects against weather)

basic_hut vs weather_shelter

So the basic hut is basically an "upgrade" to the weather shelter, in that it has 4 walls?

sun_shelter vs weather_shelter

Why wouldn't a sun shelter not also protect against rain?

field_shelter

So "field shelters" for farmers would be tagged as weather_shelter instead?

---

Hm well, as I wrote, the tag contains a wild mix of architecture type (pavillon, gazebo), function (field shelter, picnic shelter, ...) and features (walls or not / how well protected against bad weather). This is quite a bad prerequisite for a quest. Because, at least theoretically, one and the same shelter could have all of the three. I don't know, an animal shelter built in the style of a pavillon, protecting against the sun (pavillon, field_shelter, sun_shelter)

[mnalis]

Yeah, i think it needs massive reduction of answers to be usable quest. Basically, as far as data consumer usability of the tag goes, I see following:

• just the roof
• roof and 3 sides
• roof and fully enclosed on 3.5-4 sides (e.g. basic_hut)
• not-for-humans
• (maybe also that rock_shelter cave as an extra, as it is not a modern civilization structure, so unlikely to be mistaken with others)

and then go for the most generic/popular of the answers, and go with leave a note for the others.

I mean, pictures of picnic_shelter , gazebo, weather_shelter, pavilion, sun_shelter all look the same to me. I certainly wouldn't want to have to try to distinguish between all of them; they're all just a roof on some sticks! They'll protect me from both sun and rain, but not from heavy winter wind. So what does it matter? (only minor difference is that picnic_shelter might imply table+bench, but I usually just use leisure=picnic_table+covered=yes for those anyway)

[westnordost]

Well, I didn't do research, but my gut feeling is that this is not enough, because simply the presence of these topsy-turvy tag values is a strong indicator for those values being poorly defined.

Also, we are dealing with a tag that is well in use already. I do not think we can pick a few values we want to support and drop the rest. We can also not re-define the tag values. E.g. lean_to is lean to, not "has three walls".

50% of all shelter_types tagged are public transport shelters, certainly nobody would be happy if users through streetcomplete started tagging those with weather_shelter because they protect from the weather. Same with other unique shelter types such as pavillion

etc

[mnalis]

My main concern is how to convey all that information for the very similar (and sometimes overlapping definitions) of those structures to the average SC user, with just a picture and few words (instead of several must-read full wiki pages with examples).

While I have mapped some shelters in more advanced OSM editors (JOSM, Vespucci...) I am not an huge expert in them. That being said, I have read their wiki pages few times, and mapped what I needed in the past.

But even with such above-average OSM shelter raw tag experience, I for one would certainly be confused what to map exactly if SC were to ask me such unabridged list of tags as suggested in #4428 (comment). Unless of course few words over those pictures could define key differences between them in very clear and concise way (which seems very hard task to me - but then again clarity in shortness has never been my forte)

[westnordost]

I'll close this then and the associated quest then. Sorry that you spent time on implementation already

[matkoniecz]

I am sorry that I misjudged situation and marked it as a viable quest :(

[mcliquid]

I am sorry that I misjudged situation and marked it as a viable quest :(

No problem! I'm glad I've learned a little bit more about the app & code 👍