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Add mediation fee to spec and docs #4696

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palango opened this issue Aug 30, 2019 · 11 comments
Closed
10 tasks done

Add mediation fee to spec and docs #4696

palango opened this issue Aug 30, 2019 · 11 comments
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@palango
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palango commented Aug 30, 2019

Currently we have to user docs explaining how mediation fees work and how to set them.

@palango palango added this to the Alderaan milestone Aug 30, 2019
karlb added a commit to karlb/spec that referenced this issue Sep 20, 2019
I took the relevant parts of the mediation fee ADR
https://github.com/raiden-network/raiden-services/blob/master/adr/003-mediation-fees.md and adapted it a bit to fit into the existing mediation fee page.

For the reasoning why we do it this way I just link to the ADR.

We're still missing the specification of the message format. I've added
that to raiden-network/raiden#4696.
palango pushed a commit to raiden-network/spec that referenced this issue Sep 23, 2019
I took the relevant parts of the mediation fee ADR
https://github.com/raiden-network/raiden-services/blob/master/adr/003-mediation-fees.md and adapted it a bit to fit into the existing mediation fee page.

For the reasoning why we do it this way I just link to the ADR.

We're still missing the specification of the message format. I've added
that to raiden-network/raiden#4696.
@Dominik1999
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@karlb is this up to date now? Can we close?

@karlb
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karlb commented Nov 22, 2019

The spec is up to date. I'm not sure what the expectations for the user docs are.

@Dominik1999
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Dominik1999 commented Nov 22, 2019

UPDATE

For the docs, the goal is that the user understands that some payments are not working due to the fees involved. Secondary, we can try to tell the user how fees are to be changed and set.

@karlb karlb changed the title Add mediation fee docs [SP 5] Add mediation fee docs Mar 26, 2020
@palango palango added the Effort / 5 relatively easy label Mar 31, 2020
@palango palango changed the title [SP 5] Add mediation fee docs Add mediation fee docs Mar 31, 2020
@Dominik1999 Dominik1999 changed the title Add mediation fee docs Add mediation fee to spec and docs May 22, 2020
@karlb karlb self-assigned this May 25, 2020
@Dominik1999
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@agatsoh and me we were both irritated in recent tests due to the fees. We tried to send very small amounts and we got there is no route because the value was too small for the default fees. This needs to be explained to the user. There must be a minimum amount a user can send (depending on the channel balance).

@palango
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palango commented May 26, 2020

@agatsoh and me we were both irritated in recent tests due to the fees. We tried to send very small amounts and we got there is no route because the value was too small for the default fees. This needs to be explained to the user. There must be a minimum amount a user can send (depending on the channel balance).

I think explaining it only goes so far. If the UX of this is so bad, that even people who work with it don't get it then we should maybe set them to zero for now and enable them only in a subsequent release.

@Dominik1999
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can we somehow only have default flat and proportional fees or have at least a better error message?

@palango
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palango commented May 26, 2020

can we somehow only have default flat and proportional fees

How would that solve the problem? The problem is, to my understanding, that the default fees are way higher then the amount and we forbid this in the client.

@Dominik1999
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Dominik1999 commented May 26, 2020

yes, my idea is that with only flat and proportional fees we can give the user a good error message by calculating that before the transfer is executed. Like it is easy to calculate

  • x = amount to be sent
  • ff = flat fee
  • pf = proportional fee

-> if x * 1.2 < (x + ff) * (1 + pf) say No

Just a thought, whereas we use the default values to calculate

@karlb
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karlb commented May 26, 2020

We definitively need a better error message. With that error message, no one is going look up the mediation fee chapter in the docs. At some point, we should also allow sending such payments if the user really wants.

I agree that we should do something about it, but adding explanations to the mediation fee chapter won't help just by itself. So I consider it out of scope of this ticket.

@karlb
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karlb commented May 26, 2020

I created #6197, as this needs at least a code change for the error message.

@palango
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palango commented May 26, 2020

yes, my idea is that with only flat and proportional fees we can give the user a good error message by calculating that before the transfer is executed.

That's nice, but it would also be ice to still allow small amounts in direct transfers.

@karlb karlb closed this as completed May 26, 2020
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