Teensy / Bootloader/Reset (via Shift + Shift + Pause) doesn't put the teensy in boot mode. #532

jasonm23 · 2016-07-17T11:00:28Z

I've found that the doing Shift + Shift + Pause isn't putting the teensy 2.0 into bootloader / flashing mode properly. TMK worked fine.

I've looked at #164 and ensured the USB is unplugged/plugged in again to ensure this isn't the cause.

Teensy CLI and the GUI both fail to see it in bootloader mode.

As a side note the keyboard simply begins registering key strokes again in a few seconds after doing Shift + Shift + Pause

jasonm23 · 2016-07-17T11:12:13Z

I reflashed the Teensy after a hardware reset and now the Shift + Shift + Pause is working ok.

jasonm23 · 2016-07-17T11:13:28Z

Setting up a short on the teensy GND / RST that I can trigger easily without opening the case seems like a reasonable long term solution.

jasonm23 · 2016-07-18T02:35:47Z

@jackhumbert are there options for software based reset?

jasonm23 · 2016-07-18T03:21:45Z

@jackhumbert one other related question, why does the regular keyboard firmware kick in after 3 or so seconds? Makes me think it's not really going to the bootloader.

TerryMathews · 2016-07-20T20:49:59Z

@jasonm23 What kind of options are you looking for? You can put RESET on your keymap and the sky is basically the limit. I have mine bound to Fn + Backspace.

jasonm23 · 2016-07-25T04:22:40Z

Hi @TerryMathews I'm basically looking to have keyboard based access to the bootloader.

Shift - Shift - Pause is unreliable, and often necessitates opening up the case. (Sorry if I didn't explain that.)

If mapping RESET on the keymap is possible, and that's identical in operation to pressing the hw button on the teensy, I think I'll be set.

TerryMathews · 2016-07-25T05:01:23Z

Look at the keymap in Phantom for an example of what RESET looks like.

On Jul 25, 2016 12:22 AM, "JasonM23" [email protected] wrote:

Hi @TerryMathews https://github.com/TerryMathews I'm basically looking
to have keyboard based access to the bootloader.

Shift - Shift - Pause is unreliable, and often necessitates opening up the
case. (Sorry if I didn't explain that.)

If mapping RESET on the keymap is possible, and that's identical in
operation to pressing the hw button on the teensy, I think I'll be set.

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jasonm23 · 2016-07-25T05:30:39Z

Thanks for the tip!

jasonm23 · 2016-07-25T05:34:49Z

Place RESET on a keymap position.

The code / pre tags make a big difference in read/cognition (read: certainty) for me.

jasonm23 · 2016-07-25T06:21:09Z

@TerryMathews - so I mapped up RESET on FN0 + Pause which is happening, hid_listen borks as expected when it's triggered, but then a few seconds later the keyboard is running the QMK firmware again, and appears to auto-reboot.

This isn't what happens when doing a HW reset and that's what I'm really after.

Is it possible? Am I doing something else wrong? Really at a loss to understand if (a) I have unreasonable expectations of what software reset can/should do. (b) I'm missing some info (c) ???

TerryMathews · 2016-07-25T11:42:49Z

You have something wrong in your source then. Reset should be taking you to
the bootloader. If it is not, the bootloader size in Makefile is likely
wrong for the device you're using.

Which, by the way, what device are you working on and can you upload the
source your using to GitHub so we can look at it?

On Jul 25, 2016 2:21 AM, "JasonM23" [email protected] wrote:

@TerryMathews https://github.com/TerryMathews - so I mapped up RESET on
FN0 + Pause which is happening, hid_listen borks as expected when it's
triggered, but then a few seconds later the keyboard is running the QMK
firmware again, and appears to auto-reboot.

This isn't what happens when doing a HW reset and that's what I'm really
after.

Is it possible? Am I doing something else wrong? Really at a loss to
understand if (a) I have unreasonable expectations of what software reset
can/should do. (b) I'm missing some info (c) ???

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jasonm23 · 2016-07-25T14:58:43Z

https://github.com/jasonm23/qmk_firmware/tree/ocodo-handwired/keyboards/handwired/tenkeyless

It's a Teensy.

TerryMathews · 2016-07-25T15:12:19Z

The Teensy code in Phantom uses 4096 for bootloader size, and I can vouch
that it works correctly on a genuine Teensy 2.0. Try that.

On Jul 25, 2016 10:58 AM, "JasonM23" [email protected] wrote:

https://github.com/jasonm23/qmk_firmware/tree/ocodo-handwired/keyboards/handwired/tenkeyless

It's a Teensy.

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jackhumbert · 2016-07-25T15:16:10Z

@TerryMathews really? The bootloader size for the Teensy 2.0 should be 512 :) Maybe it'd work if the bytes before that are all zeros? I'm not entirely sure how the MCU would handle that.

TerryMathews · 2016-07-25T15:38:10Z

Phantom drops reliably into Bootloader using 4096. I have to take my
keyboard apart to hit the switch, so making sure RESET worked was a top
priority for me.

I built the Phantom code from Satan, so the bootloader jump carried over as
well and since it worked I didn't alter it. Maybe it's a bit/byte issue
since 4096/8=512?

I can't explain why it works, but it works on both Teensy 2.0s I have.

On Jul 25, 2016 11:16 AM, "Jack Humbert" [email protected] wrote:

@TerryMathews https://github.com/TerryMathews really? The bootloader
size for the Teensy 2.0 should be 512 :) Maybe it'd work if the bytes
before that are all zeros? I'm not entirely sure how the MCU would handle
that.

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jasonm23 · 2016-07-26T15:32:46Z

@TerryMathews @jackhumbert the Teensy is indeed a 512kb memory (I assume that includes the actual bootloader itself.)

Regardless: (reflashing via hardware reset - SW reset not working.)

Teensy Loader, Command Line, Version 2.0
Read "handwired_tenkeyless_default.hex": 23094 bytes, 71.6% usage
Waiting for Teensy device...
 (hint: press the reset button)
Found HalfKay Bootloader
Read "handwired_tenkeyless_default.hex": 23094 bytes, 71.6% usage
Programming.....................................................................................................................................................................................
Booting

Even though my firmware is only ~23Kb it's reported as 71%.

If I compile the Phantom firmware (let's do that now...)

And load it onto the teensy...

teensy_loader_cli -mmcu=atmega32u4 -w -v phantom_default.hex 
Teensy Loader, Command Line, Version 2.0
Read "phantom_default.hex": 24118 bytes, 74.8% usage
Waiting for Teensy device...
 (hint: press the reset button)
Found HalfKay Bootloader
Read "phantom_default.hex": 24118 bytes, 74.8% usage
Programming.............................................................................................................................................................................................
Booting

it's also close to 24kb so maybe that clears up the numbers.

jasonm23 · 2016-07-26T15:44:07Z

After recompiling my handwired tenkeyless firmware both the RESET and the SHIFT-SHIFT-PAUSE default bootloader trigger are working as expected. Although that's not the first time.

The difference is that I'm at another location and using a different Mac (from the machine I was using when I opened the issue). I'll experiment and see if I can make it fail again. (without changing machines)

Edit: For reference: failing machine is an iMac (2015) and the machine I'm using now is a MBPRetina 13" early 2015. Note: as above, the SW reset wasn't working until reflashing on the MBPRetina.

I'm also going to change the vendor id / product id so that the mac sees it as a new board, just to see if the USB host has any issues. (A wild stab in the dark TBH, but not much else to do right now.)

Done, no effect, SW reset is working. I'll hook it back up to the iMac tomorrow and see if I can get the fault to repeat. Worst case, at least I'll have narrowed down to the iMac. (BTW there are multiple iMacs at the other site and I've had this experience with at least 2 of them.)

jasonm23 · 2016-07-26T16:00:19Z

BTW @TerryMathews I'm not sure why your Makefile / bootloader size is working at 4096, mine's unchanged as 512 for the teensy.

No idea why yours is working, because it shouldn't!

jasonm23 · 2016-07-26T16:02:41Z

Tested with both sizes. Makes zero difference. SW reset continues to work. (still on the MBPRet)

jasonm23 · 2016-07-26T16:36:52Z

Ah well, it's not a specific Mac. I un-plugged the board and reconnected it and SW RESET no longer works.

I'm going to try connecting to another host machine now and see how it goes.

jasonm23 · 2016-07-26T16:44:49Z

Connected to a much older Macbookpro early 2011. SW Reset not working.

Can remedy only with HW reset. Annoying. :(

TerryMathews · 2016-07-26T17:54:47Z

I know why the bootloader size works - learned a ton about ATmega32u4 last night trying to fix a clone Pro Micro.

The bootloader address jump isn't controlled by the software the controller is running, it's controlled by software fuses. Setting the bootloader size bigger than needed shortchanges the availabile program size but ensures maximum comparability.

To your issue, I wonder if your Mac devices that aren't handling soft reset correctly are dropping power to the USB port when the device resets. Do you have a powered USB hub you can use in between the device and the Mac to test?

jasonm23 · 2016-07-26T23:34:02Z

Hi @TerryMathews after flashing, up until disconnection, the SW reset feature works. As soon as I disconnect USB or power down the host, SW reset no longer works and a HW reset is required.

No changes on the hardware end affect this. (all Macs; powered/unpowered USB hubs etc.)

TerryMathews · 2016-07-28T02:06:00Z

I cannot explain that. That has not been my experience on three Teensy 2.0 based keyboards - 2 Phantoms and a Neutrino.

Do you have a powered USB hub you can try in the middle? I think at this point we've narrowed it down to either the Teensy itself or the behavior of the Macs you have it connected to.

jasonm23 · 2016-08-12T03:29:10Z

@TerryMathews I have found the answer to this issue, and it turns out to be
a hardware problem.

The Teensy 2.0s that I have been using are apparently clone devices
and not original PJRC Teensies. I just fitted out a new Phantom TKL
with an official Teensy sourced from mechanicalkeyboards.com.

Notable differences are gold contacts on the pads/through holes and an
orange LED (vs a green LED on the clones)

These were sold on eBay as Teensy 2.0 and come in a solid plastic
packaging, with foam mount and a USB cable included, priced at $10-$15
from a number of vendors, I've also seen them on AliExpress.

They seem to work exactly as a Teensy 2.0 except for this particular
feature.

Hopefully this information will prove useful to someone in the future.

jasonm23 · 2016-08-12T03:30:34Z

For reference https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/counterfeit.html

TerryMathews · 2016-08-12T03:34:48Z

Glad to hear it. Since you've isolated the issue and determined that it's not related to QMK you should close this and the other issue you have open.

I'd be curious to know if there's something fundamentally flawed in the hardware on that clone or if it's just a bad implementation of the Teensy bootloader. Would you be willing to pass it on to me for shipping cost? I've got the hardware to flash a different bootloader on via ISP and see if it behaves any better.

jasonm23 · 2016-08-12T03:59:40Z

I have a few of them, so I'd be happy to send one to you. ping me via my username at Google's popular email system.

jasonm23 · 2016-08-17T05:53:37Z

BTW verified - Teensy genuine the bootloader size set to 2048 works.

512, 1024, 4096 do not work. All tested.

AMtel bootloader and the LUFA bootloader: 4096

Yoobe · 2016-10-09T18:35:52Z

Hi @jasonm23 ,

I built my first neutrino this week end and I have the same issue for reset of the teensy.. I came here to understand that I dont have a copy of teensy 2.0 :(
Did you find a solution for the fake teensy reset?
I cannot find a genuine version of teensy 2.0 anymore. All sellers are out of stock.

TerryMathews · 2016-10-09T18:39:59Z

You can make the clone Teensy work reliably if you reflash the bootloader.
I have one that should work I can send you, but you need an ISP programmer.

On Oct 9, 2016 2:35 PM, "Yoobe" [email protected] wrote:

Hi @jasonm23 https://github.com/jasonm23 ,

I built my first neutrino this week end and I have the same issue for
reset of the teensy.. I came here to understand that I dont have a copy of
teensy 2.0 :(
Did you find a solution for the fake teensy reset?
I cannot find a genuine version of teensy 2.0 anymore. All sellers are out
of stock.

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Yoobe · 2016-10-09T18:51:24Z

I have a JLINK and a ST-link.. don't think they are compatible with AVR boards :(
Any usb/ttl board is not useful? I have some FTDI boards...

Yoobe · 2016-10-09T19:02:57Z

Maybe I could use an arduino board as ISP

I have a Arduino Nano V3.0 and based on this website (https://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/ArduinoISP) I can try to flash the boatloader..

Yes I am interested by the bootloader you have

jasonm23 · 2016-10-09T23:47:17Z

Yoobe the amtel bootloader is fine, you can get it from their site.

http://www.atmel.com/devices/atmega32u4.aspx?tab=documents

Sent from my iPhone

TerryMathews · 2016-10-10T02:27:17Z

Yoobe, what's your e-mail? I can send you what I sent to JasonM23 that he
was able to successfully flash and use his cloned Teensy normally. I should
point out that you won't be using the Teensy tools anymore, this is an
Atmel bootloader and as such you'd be using DFU to flash going forward.

On Sun, Oct 9, 2016 at 3:03 PM, Yoobe [email protected] wrote:

Maybe I could use an arduino board as ISP

I have a Arduino Nano V3.0 and based on this website (
https://www.arduino.cc/en/Tutorial/ArduinoISP) I can try to flash the
boatloader..

Yes I am interested by the bootloader you have

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jasonm23 · 2016-10-10T02:34:15Z

Terry did you modify it? Yoobe should just download it from amtel.

jasonm23 · 2016-10-10T02:35:36Z

Btw, thanks for letting me know you got the teensy clone in the mail.

TerryMathews · 2016-10-10T02:39:51Z

It's not from Atmel, it's from http://www.stanleylio.com/home/usblufa

And yes it is modified, because as-is it wasn't reliably soft resetting
into Bootloader. I had to flip the logic on the default state based on the
way my Pro Micro clones were wired. It seemed to work for you as well.

Finally, no I didn't receive the clone you mailed me. I didn't think it was
worth mentioning.

On Oct 9, 2016 10:34 PM, "Jason Milkins" [email protected] wrote:

Terry did you modify it? Yoobe should just download it from amtel.

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Yoobe · 2016-10-10T18:57:53Z

here is my email: [email protected]
Thanks for the bootloader.

Based on your work, do you know if there is a chance to change the firmware code to have the reset working as expected? Matter of address?

stefanadelbert · 2017-04-19T03:12:05Z

I am having this same problem with a "Teensy 2.0" bought from AliExpress. If I perform a hardware reset then I am able to perform software resets until I unplug. On replugging, software resets no longer jump successfully to the bootloader - it seems that the firmware does get restarted though even though it doesn't jump to the bootloader. Using the magic bootloader command on powerup (space + b) also didn't jump to the bootloader. I was getting similar behaviour with TMK. I have tried a few different values for BOOTLOADER_SIZE (4096, 1024, 512).

jasonm23 · 2017-05-02T03:49:08Z

@TerryMathews Sorry for the late reply. It was sent tracked and according to the carrier it was delivered / received. I wonder what happened to it !?

jasonm23 · 2017-05-02T03:52:58Z

@stefanadelbert as you'll read above these Teensy's from AliExpress are not the real deal, so you need to reprogram them with a USB-ISP programmer.

They look something like this.

Just google for 'usb isp programmer' and you will get a bunch of options to buy one. They are cheap, often less than $10.

You can then re-flash the bootloader as per Terry's instructions and my notes above.

stefanadelbert · 2017-05-02T07:50:53Z

@TerryMathews Thanks for the reply - I really appreciate it. I ended up drilling a hole in the bottom of my keyboard so that I could access the reset pushbutton on the "Teensy". It's a shame, but it works. Next time around I will get myself the real thing instead of the knockoff.

jasonm23 · 2017-08-19T09:16:07Z

NOTE: using a BOOTSIZE of 4096 with these teensy clones allows soft reset using LShift + RShift + Pause

jasonm23 closed this as completed Jul 17, 2016

jasonm23 reopened this Jul 18, 2016

jasonm23 closed this as completed Aug 12, 2016

jasonm23 mentioned this issue Aug 12, 2016

Teensy coma - after flashing, teensy is not recognized (temporarily) #528

Closed

jiaxin96 pushed a commit to Oh-My-Mechanical-Keyboard/qmk_firmware that referenced this issue Oct 18, 2023

refactor: improve code for QMK merge (qmk#532)

5bb9aba

Teensy / Bootloader/Reset (via Shift + Shift + Pause) doesn't put the teensy in boot mode. #532

Teensy / Bootloader/Reset (via Shift + Shift + Pause) doesn't put the teensy in boot mode. #532

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