[BUG] MK3S+ WITH REVO fails to calibrate new thermal model #3636
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M503 response: M503 |
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M310 A F1 response: M310 A F1 TM: error |2.014009|>1.200000 |
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Same for me, MK3S with Revo Six
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PTC-based heating elements (I'm aware of only the Revo using one at the moment) are known not to work in this beta (#3552 (comment) for extra details). Nevertheless, we hope to support this and having a few extra traces would be very useful. In order to submit a trace you should log all the serial output from the printer, with timestamps, while running the calibration. Using octoprint would be the perfect solution as it does everything right out of the box. To initiate a calibration with full log, issue the following commands in sequence: These will run a full calibration without self-check, it should always succeed (and produce copious output). You can save all the output (from M155 to the final result) and attach it here (as a zip file) along with the details of the printer (revo model and any other mods on the printer if any). We have just two samples at the moment from a revo hotend, but it would be great to have around ~20. |
Is it just the serial logs that are required? I have uploaded mine please let me know if you want anything different. Standard MK3S+ E3D Revo Six no other modifications. |
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Log for a newer 24V revo heater (one with blue thermistor wire): Obviously later M310 S1 and hotend to 200 degree -> error. (copy of #3552 (comment)) |
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Here to confirm the same issue, only difference is i have a beta testing unit of the Revo (then V7), hence why i don't post any serial logs. If you think they would help though, even if i don't have an actual production spec Revo, let me know! |
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Same issue. Getting THERMAL ANOMALY message ion LCD. |
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@theloukou Might still be useful, if you don't mind please the post as well, writing that's a beta unit. I doubt the heating core changed in betas, and I can still use the log to see if that would pass the calibration. |
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Here are my logs as well. if any more info/measurements are needed, please just ask ^_^ |
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REvo six heated up first and then ran the calibration And without preheating it fails directly. |
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@Yornik Your fail condition is still the same, you are just waiting for the first cooldown, since you heated up. |
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Please see my dataset. Retail Revo Six (blue thermistor wires), filament loaded, no other mods that could affect thermal performance. |
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@Yornik see #3636 (comment) and see if you can attach a log. |
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Is there anything regarding the thermistor wire colors I should be aware of since it has been mentioned a few times? |
If anything, it's an indicator of whether the Revo Six specimen in question was made quite early after the Revo product launch or is a part of one of the later batches. As per https://e3d-online.com/blogs/news/heatercore-update-wire-they-blue , E3D has changed the wires from white to blue at some point. There were some initial reports of early Revos failing on people with inconsistent/inaccurate thermistor readings and there seem to be less of these as of recently. That might or might not be correlated (not caused, obviously) to the wire colour change. |
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Brand new Revo Six with otherwise stock MK3S+ - Both were purchased in the last month. Revo has the new colored cable. |
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Somewhat related question: Is it ok for us to use the new beta firmware with the revo six even though the new thermal model isn't working? Or is that not a safe idea? |
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@AliceGrey still perfectly safe. The thermal protection is just a safety feature on top of everything that was already available. |
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First indications are good on 3.12.0-RC1 my printer goes through the entire TM calibration process when activated through the UI. I will do it again while capturing the serial output and then I will try some printing and see what I find. |
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Here is the serial log with the apparently successful TM calibration. Unfortunately after the calibration finishes now when I go to heat up the nozzle to load filament it gets to about 55°C and then gives me a Thermal Anomaly error and stops heating. Serial log for that incoming. |
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Ok here is the serial logs when I try to heat to 230°C, the first one I call the command from Octoprint, the second one I do through the printer itself (Preheat / PETG) In order to disable the thermal model you just need to run M310 S0 (S1 if you want to re-enable it) unfortunately this seems to get set back to 1 on restart. |
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@darraghbr yes, |
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@wavexx Ah of course, I knew I was forgetting something stupid. |
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@kylekyle Please follow #4105 (comment) and provide the logfiles. |
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I will close this issue as we released https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware/releases/tag/v3.13.0. Thank you all 🙇 🎉 |
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It still looks like we have to follow the steps in #4105 in v3.13.2. Can those steps be added to the official installation instructions? Otherwise I don't know how people would know to issues those commands. |
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I'm also still having issues that are model specific despite properly calibrating the thermal model with 3.13 revo-specific firmware |
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In case of REVO hotends, please use the REVO-specific firmware that can be found among the assets of the firmware release. If your REVO hotend fails the thermal model calibration or results in frequent thermal anomalies, please get in touch with E3D (https://e3d-online.com/) for help. If you are not using a REVO hotend, the thermal model calibration may need to be manually tuned or disabled. Michele Moramarco |
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This is exciting. I'll give the new Revo firmware a try.
…On Fri, Nov 24, 2023 at 11:08 AM Prusa-Support ***@***.***> wrote:
In case of REVO hotends, please use the REVO-specific firmware that can be
found among the assets of the firmware release.
https://github.com/prusa3d/Prusa-Firmware/releases
If your REVO hotend fails the thermal model calibration or results in
frequent thermal anomalies, please get in touch with E3D (
https://e3d-online.com/) for help.
If you are *not* using a REVO hotend, the thermal model calibration may
need to be manually tuned or disabled.
You can find more about the thermal model parameters at #3552
<#3552>.
Michele Moramarco
Prusa Research
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Justin Kruger
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Yep, did a system reset, added latest firmware, tried to do the first layer calibration and then get the thermal issue. |
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This is open source and, as mentioned above, the feature can be tuned or disabled to accommodate third-party solutions. Liability is a different topic. Michele Moramarco |
I don't believe that a commitment to open source automatically implies an obligation to support each and every piece of hardware on the market. Prusa makes a product. They release it open source. E3D makes a product. Turns out it doesn't work super easily with the Prusa product. Is it really up to Prusa to resolve the issue? I don't think so. Microsoft publishes their Windows hardware interface specification, so companies can make their products, like printers, work with Windows. Microsoft does not take responsibility for making those printers work. That's up to the printer manufacturer. In that vein, maybe E3D needs to develop a version of the Revo that conforms to the new Prusa Thermal Model. |
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Oh - I see you all still holding on to this outdated printer? Discarded all the MK3+'s and Mini's long ago. A lone Mk4 that shits all over the bed with blobs each time it does it famous "auto levelling" lying in a corner. So much for input shaping - its rather shaking itself apart instead. Wonder why they never installed the $2 accelerometer - just listen to it home!! . The hype no longer matches the realty for me at least. Waste of time. Happy I switched. |
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Wow. Did someone get a lump of coal for Christmas?
…On Wed, 3 Jan 2024, 9:11 am madproducts, ***@***.***> wrote:
Oh - I see you all still holding on to this outdated printer? Discarded
all the MK3+'s and Mini's long ago. A lone Mk4 that shits all over the bed
with blobs each time it does it famous "auto levelling" lying in a corner.
So much for input shaping - its rather shaking itself apart instead. Wonder
why they never installed the $2 accelerometer - just listen to it home!! .
The hype no longer matches the realty for me at least. Waste of time. Happy
I switched.
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Thanks for letting us know. I am always happy when someone provides constructive criticism like you do. Especially if it is on-topic.
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I bought a Prusa to just work and upgraded to Revo for the same reason. I
found the old E3D V6 nozzles were problematic, and now I have invested in
diamond-tipped Revo nozzles.
I gotta say, every time I get excited about new firmware and hear that it's
just going to cause problems, well, it makes me not want to install new
firmware. It also gives me a sour taste to buy another Prusa.
The number 1 rule is to not break what isn't broken, and I just don't know
why Prusa is forcing this feature on the new firmware. Was it deeply asked
for? Does it solve a big need?
There are a lot of 'big community asks' and I never saw this as one of
them. What was the driving force for this broken feature?
…On Tue, Jan 2, 2024 at 12:39 PM Balu ***@***.***> wrote:
Thanks for letting us know. I am always happy when someone provides
constructive criticism like you do. Especially if it is on-topic.
"Multiple exclamation marks," he went on, shaking his head, "are a sure
sign of a diseased mind."
-- Terry Pratchett, Eric
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Justin Kruger
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I have an MK3S and Revo nozzles and I've been using this "broken feature" since the very beginning, and... I don't know, man, it works pretty well! I'm running with 3.13.2 and I haven't had a single issue. 🤷♂️ |
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Is it a thing now to make random statements inferring a knowledge level, which is possibly somewhat ambitious? Revo does work very well with Prusa MK3s+, I believe this discussion is about the introduction of firmware updates and the impact of that on existing 3d party equipment performance, namely Thermal Calibration. So for clarification the official Prusa Word is because additional thermal calibration was introduced as a 'safety' feature, to implement a method that negates this would in turn leave Prusa as potentially complicit should the issue of liability be raised following an event causing damage and or death? However, the reality is there wasn't an issue before it was made one. I understand a potential need to enhance safety compliance with potential growth markets, such as schools, but is there no way to throw a bone to their existing customer base that do have Revo hotends and are now between a rock and a hard place such as myself on buying a MMU3 which requires the latest FW on MK3S+ but having the Revo fail the self tests. |
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So many of my products have a 'liability waiver' if you disable certain
features.
AMD, for instance, has a warning in the BIOS if you want to alter voltages
or 'overclock' without the auto overclocking features.
I can get behind this feature being on by default, but it seems buggy for
3d party parts, which is the whole point of buying an open-source product.
If I didn't want to modify it, then buying closed source is just fine.
I think you should be able to disable this and waive liability related to
'these issues'.
…On Tue, Jan 2, 2024 at 12:52 PM blondimage ***@***.***> wrote:
Is it a thing now to make random statements inferring a knowledge level,
which is possibly somewhat ambitious?
Revo does work very well with Prusa MK3s+, I believe this discussion is
about the introduction of firmware updates and the impact of that on
existing 3d party equipment performance, namely Thermal Calibration.
So for clarification the official Prusa Word is because additional thermal
calibration was introduced as a 'safety' feature, to implement a method
that negates this would in turn leave Prusa as potentially complicit should
the issue of liability be raised following an event causing damage and or
death?
However, the reality is there wasn't an issue before it was made one. I
understand a potential need to enhance safety compliance with potential
growth markets, such as schools, but is there no way to throw a bone to
their existing customer base that do have Revo hotends and are now between
a rock and a hard place such as myself on buying a MMU3 which requires the
latest FW on MK3S+ but having the Revo fail the self tests.
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Justin Kruger
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What on earth is happening in this thread. If you don't want the thermal model you can just disable it. It's just: M310 S0 and then M500 to save it to the EEPROM, congratulations you have disabled the thermal model. That being said I have used it since day 1 with zero issue. |
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Darragh, don't firmware updates turn the model back on each time?
…On Tue, Jan 2, 2024 at 1:07 PM Darragh Broadbent ***@***.***> wrote:
What on earth is happening in this thread.
If you don't want the thermal model you can just disable it.
It's just:
M310 S0
and then M500 to save it to the EEPROM, congratulations you have disabled
the thermal model. That being said I have used it since day 1 with zero
issue.
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Justin Kruger
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Not as far as I can remember, much the same as it doesn't require a new PID tune. The very bottom of this article here: https://help.prusa3d.com/article/thermal-model-calibration_382488 Although it does not mention firmware flashing. |
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I find this discussion interesting. I agree with much of what @blondimage says. I would modify the statement that Revo works well with MK3S+ to works well with certain firmware versions on MK3S+. We all know that issues arose with FW 3.12.x. I, myself, switched back to FW 3.11 for many months. I needed to get some prints done and just could not rely on FW 3.12. Finally, I did go through the procedure to calibrate my MK3S+ to use FW 3.13.2. Mind you, I did have to swap out the Revo thermistor cable to the Einsy board -- the original one was causing intermittent anomalies. In the end I view this as having my printer in even better shape that it was. I don't agree with "there wasn't an issue". We don't actually know if there was, or would be, an issue. I know I would not want to stifle advances in safety features. I agree about schools. I think Lulzbot currently survives because it is able to sell to schools and other institutions in the US. It only makes sense Prusa would want in on that market. Of course, they have to meet the requirements laid down by these institutions. One of those would almost certainly be that the equipment must pass UL safety testing. Maybe the older FW didn't. That's only a guess of course, but there is a certain logic to it. @jDavidnet, I'm not sure I agree that the "whole point" of open source is to allow 3rd party hardware. I think a bigger point is to allow others to build on and improve the project. I agree that being able to use other hardware is a great feature, just not that it's the end all and be all. @darraghbr I agree, but I think some people are hoping for a menu item that allows reverting to the older thermal model without having to fire up SSH. But, as I stated above, I suspect this could lead to non-compliance issues with sales to institutions. |
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It's either free and open, or it's not.
With other open-source projects if code is added that makes 3rd party code
harder to run, there is always a shit storm.
Open == Collaborative.
I haven't ordered an MK4 because I can't use Revo, and I've invested a lot
in these nozzles. I'd like to upgrade to load-cell bed leveling and input
shaping, but I've got over $500, maybe $750 in advanced nozzles now.
The Revo Thermal Coupler also solved some of the problems Prusa is trying
to address in firmware/software thermal mechanically, so I still consider
the Revo solution better.
Since Prusa designed the MK4 to use proprietary nozzles, it does seem
anti-competitive to distance from 3rd party nozzles. It's hard not to see
it this way.
I'm trying not to directly mention Prusa's full printer competitors here,
but the less open Prusa get's the more they just seem like every other
printer company.
I really liked that 3d printing got this far on open culture and rep rap
philosophy, but I see a big shift and it's not in a good way.
I don't mind spending more for openness, but it has to still be good.
VR started open, and is being quickly captured, and it's going to be hard
to get it back.
The PC is getting more and more closed too.
Once it goes closed, it's near impossible to get the momentum going in the
other direction.
…On Tue, Jan 2, 2024 at 1:27 PM snafu1282 ***@***.***> wrote:
I find this discussion interesting.
I agree with much of what @blondimage <https://github.com/blondimage>
says. I would modify the statement that Revo works well with MK3S+ to *works
well with certain firmware versions on MK3S+*. We all know that issues
arose with FW 3.12.x.
I, myself, switched back to FW 3.11 for many months. I needed to get some
prints done and just could not rely on FW 3.12. Finally, I did go through
the procedure to calibrate my MK3S+ to use FW 3.13.2. Mind you, I did have
to swap out the Revo thermistor cable to the Einsy board -- the original
one was causing intermittent anomalies. In the end I view this as having my
printer in even better shape that it was.
I don't agree with "there wasn't an issue". We don't actually know if
there was, or would be, an issue. I know I would not want to stifle
advances in safety features.
I agree about schools. I think Lulzbot currently survives because it is
able to sell to schools and other institutions in the US. It only makes
sense Prusa would want in on that market. Of course, they have to meet the
requirements laid down by these institutions. One of those would almost
certainly be that the equipment must pass UL safety testing. Maybe the
older FW didn't. That's only a guess of course, but there is a certain
logic to it.
In that vein, having an option in the LCD menu to disable the advanced
thermal model would likely lead to the printer not passing -- just too easy
for students to mess with it. Even being able to do it through SSH might
get scrutiny.
@jDavidnet <https://github.com/jDavidnet>, I'm not sure I agree that the
"whole point" of open source is to allow 3rd party hardware. I think a
bigger point is to allow others to build on and improve the project. I
agree that being able to use other hardware is a great feature, just not
that it's the end all and be all.
@darraghbr <https://github.com/darraghbr> I agree, but I think some
people are hoping for a menu item that allows reverting to the older
thermal model without having to fire up SSH. But, as I stated above, I
suspect this could lead to non-compliance issues with sales to institutions.
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Justin Kruger
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@darraghbr - if I found this straight forward, I wouldn't be here. |
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@blondimage he's referring to commands you issue to the printer over a serial connection. On a PC you can use PuTTY, Pronterface, or SSH from a command prompt. In Octoprint you can use the Terminal window. |
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So until PrusaSlicer 2.6.1 you got a piece of software called 'Pronterface' bundled with it. It is now run under the 'Printrun' project and hopefully will be readded soon. Install Pronterface/Printrun and then using the following link: https://help.prusa3d.com/article/pronterface-and-usb-cable_2222 In the same way you update the firmware, open Pronterface and follow the above article under the 'Setting up USB connection and Pronterface' until you finish step 2, so stop before you get to 'Load model'. After you are connected to the printer use the box on the bottom right of Pronterface where it says 'Command to [S]end' type in 'M310 S0' without the quotes and then hit send, wait until the command finishes and then do the same with 'M500' again without the quotes and hit send, once that finishes you can disconnect and you are finished. |
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@darraghbr - Cheers! It's kinda late now so will do this tomorrow. In Pronterface, you say wait for the command to finish, does it give some sort of indication of this? - so I know what to look for. Ta. |
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In the window above the text box where you input the commands there is a serial monitor so after you enter the command the response from the printer will go in there. It should say something about the command finishing, I can't remember if the temperatures get logged in there at frequent intervals so you might just see it go back to doing that. |
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Awesome! Thanks. |
This repository doesn't concern the printer model Prusa MK4 or the hardware design but I'd like to avoid misleading information. Every company has the right to use proprietary hardware/software, in accordance with the rules, and their business plans - this may not really be the case though. . This issue is solved at the firmware level - which is the ultimate purpose of this repository - and therefore closed. Michele Moramarco |
and others
Printer type - MK3S+ WITH REVO
Printer firmware version - 3.12.0-BETA1
Describe the bug
Attempting to start the new thermal model calibration WITH REVO (M310 A F1) results in an immediate THERMAL ANOMALY error with a warning tone and the calibration stops.
To Reproduce
Have a MK3S+ with REVO SIX installed, ensure RPi port is disabled, send M503 over USB with Pronterface, then send M310 A F1 and the printer almost immediately gives a THERMAL ANOMALY error and the calibration process stops.
I attempted the calibration both with and without filament loaded, with the same end result.
Expected behavior
This was not unexpected, and serves as feedback for the developers.
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