Add local and federated timeline

[Discostu36]

At the moment there seems to be no way to access local and federated timeline. Please consider adding that feature.

[dermitdemdino]

Without this feature, the app can only be used to a very limited extent.

[FediVideos]

At least have the local timeline, it is important for community-building on smaller instances, and smaller instances are what keep Mastodon from turning into Twitter.

If we just cater to big instances, the network will be vulnerable to being bought up, and all our efforts will be pointless.

[Akselmo]

Dont really see a point using this app without the local timeline.

[vilbi]

Good design, but in the last smalll new users waves in Germany I was in contact to several New Accounts using the android Mastodon APP. They totally misunderstood the mastodon decentral aspect, as they don"t get the chance to feel it via this app and I failed explaining until I recognized, it's the app. People who have the spontaneous mood to try a 'new' social Network with a new app, don't like to be told, nice try, do it again, as the official app is only giving you a distortion of reality.
So add Local and Federated timeline, otherwise the approach of decentral instances and so a diverse alternative network will die and mastodon.social will be as social as Twitter.

[dusnm]

On one hand I do understand the motivation in removing these timelines and I can begrudgingly accept that it probably is the best option for users coming from twitter. On the other hand I can't help, but feel this betrays the already existing user base, especially the users from smaller instances. The whole point of the Local timeline is to have a space for discussion with like minded people. That's why we have communities built around different themes. In essence that's exactly what separates Mastodon from Twitter. I don't want just an open source version of Twitter, that's not what I signed up for.

I feel there could be a sort of compromise here. Instead of outright removing the Local and Federated timelines, just hide them by default. That way people who know about them can use them, others don't even have to be aware of their existence.

[FediVideos]

It seems like the problem is this:

On large instances, the risks of a Local timeline outweigh the benefits. On large instances, the Local timeline is a firehose just like Federated, impossible to read and full of potentially nasty content but impossible to browse for fun. Seems like a no-brainer to zap Local.

On small instances, it's the other way around. The benefits of a Local timeline outweigh the risks, it's not a firehose, it helps build the community and people are much less likely to see nasty content because the moderators have better control over troublemakers. Removing Local seems like a bad idea.

I'm not sure how this situation can be resolved, maybe Local could be for instances below a certain size?

[lesion]

I'm not sure how this situation can be resolved, maybe Local could be for instances below a certain size?

it depends on what kind of instances you want to focus on, if decentralize is the point we need to privilege small instances.

[afk-mario]

You can access the local timeline under search/community

[oufmilo]

I think global timeline is very important for smaller instance. You need this to discover other people and to expand your visibility.

[grishka]

Local timeline was added (search -> community), and I believe there are no plans to add the federated timeline (@Gargron correct me if I'm wrong). One issue with adding a federated timeline is that it's more-or-less unmoderated and thus adds a non-zero risk of app stores, especially Google Play, rejecting the app over something outside of our control.

[Gargron]

I think global timeline is very important for smaller instance. You need this to discover other people and to expand your visibility.

The explore tab is in essence a moderated, quality-filtered federated timeline. Its purpose is to help you discover other people and expand your visibility, but without being a vector for spam and abuse.

[yoshimo]

One issue with adding a federated timeline is that it's more-or-less unmoderated and thus adds a non-zero risk of app stores, especially Google Play, rejecting the app over something outside of our control.

Do you have a specific play store rule in mind for that?

[Gargron]

One issue with adding a federated timeline is that it's more-or-less unmoderated and thus adds a non-zero risk of app stores, especially Google Play, rejecting the app over something outside of our control.

Do you have a specific play store rule in mind for that?

Examples from Mastodon apps specifically:

• Tusky has been removed from the Play Store
• Fedilab has been removed from the Play Store
• Subway Tooter threatened to be removed from the Play Store

Examples from other decentralized apps:

• Element has been removed from the Play Store

Examples from non-decentralized apps with user generated content:

• Tumblr removed from the Apple App Store

While all of them have been reinstated since with varying degrees of changes (Tumblr ended up banning all adult content from its platform altogether to avoid the issue), it is evident that Google (and Apple) hold apps accountable for user-generated content.

[sk22]

This commit of mine 318d271 implements the federated timeline - you can use my fork (which I don't plan to release on the Play Store anyway), which has this and more features the official app won't implement: https://github.com/sk22/mastodon-android-fork#changes

[Doomsdayrs]

There is now a conception going around, from users using the official Mastodon application, that once you join an instance, you're in an echo chamber.

If smaller developers of Tusky can get their application back on the play store, Then larger organizations such as Mastodon should have no problem negotiating with larger corporations.

Example of Misconceptions being spread.
https://mobile.twitter.com/VeryBadLlama/status/1589086085380190209

[thekalinga]

I'm not sure why this issue is closed. All the links posted by @Gargron are resolved.

What Play Store & Apple Store did makes no sense & so does the reasons provided.

If paedophiles watch child porn on chrome browser/safari in their mobiles (which they do), are Google/Apple going to remove these browsers from the store? Browser is just a client. It has no obligation to spy on users as to what content they are watching (if it spies, no one will use it even for legitimate purpose, let alone pedos).

This client app is just a tool to connect to any mastodon server & load content. Since the app got no control over the servers (nor should it), there is no good reason to ban official Mastodon app, let alone other clients. Here are my reasons why they cant ban this app for meeting basic expectations

1. What Apple & Google did makes no sense (explanation above)
2. Since mastodon has good visibility now, there will be tremendous public pressure to back off
3. Many lawyers would be willing to fight against unjust ban (if Big Tech bullies bans)

These Big tech bullies must have assumed people wont complain if they bully app developers (which they know they can do, thanks to "legal" monopolies they have which they ensured thru bribes to politicians to not break these monopolies), but since mastodon is mainstream app, they cant bully that easily now.

Incase of twitter, the data is stored on twitter servers. So, Apple & Google can bully. But incase of mastodon, the app has no business to know which instance its talking to & what content is being stored in it. So, this app cant be held liable to for any harmful content.

If issue is the threat of banning (which imo is not a legitimate concern), why not publish multiple versions of app to playstore, where new development happens on a canary version (to test waters in playstore with all experimental features), while main app is still available for download incase if canary version is banned (unlikely)?

& also publish same canary version to non-google repos too, but still certified by repo maintainers to be malware free, so people can still install it if BTB take it down & the issue is being litigated, people can still download feature rich app? And this allows stability in the main branch too so features can be promoted to main app if the feature is liked by people & is stable enough.

[nemobis]

a vector for spam and abuse

I understand this concern on giant instances like mastodon.social, where there will always be something improper in the federated timeline, but the experience on other instances is very different. Some options could be:

• make the federated timeline available only for smaller instances (under 500 active users?),
• make the federated timeline available only for instances with closed registration/registration by application,
• only show posts older than 8 hours (or whatever) on the federated timeline, so that there's time to moderate them;
• give some control to instance admins to decide whether the federated timeline will be shown to their users.

Of course at the moment mastodon.social looms large mastodon/mastodon-ios#1023 (comment) but in the future if the app gives more choice to users again we'll be able to see whether access to the federated timeline makes a difference in terms of user retention etc.