Combat, Abandoned Mine, wrong number of ghosts, ghost groups and their positioning

[LeHerosInconnu]

Preliminary checks

• I've checked that there aren't other open issues on the same topic.
• I've checked that this issue is reproducible on the latest snapshot build.

Platform

Windows

Describe the bug

In fheroes2, the Ghosts guarding an Abandoned Mine should always be divided into five groups, as in the original game.
Otherwise it's too easy to slow down the single group with an easily accessible Slow spell, compared to the Mass Slow spell.

In original game:

In fheroes2:

2022-07-14.16-41-34.mp4

Edit 2022/07/16.

In fheroes2:

Abandoned Mine:

• The number of ghosts can evolve over the combats, unlike the original game.
• There is a different number of ghosts than in the original game.
• There is a different number of ghost groups and the positioning of these ghost groups than in the original game.

In original game:

Abandoned Mine:

The ghosts can be divided into three configurations:

• 5 groups
• 4 groups
• 3 groups

In original game:

The number of ghosts does not increase or decrease if the combat is not won and another combat is started on the same abandoned mine.
If there are 30 ghosts at the beginning of the combat and the hero reduces this number to 15 ghosts before fleeing, there will still be 30 ghosts at the next combat.
If there are 30 ghosts at the beginning of the combat and the number of ghosts is increased to 45 ghosts before the hero flees, there will still be 30 ghosts in the next combat.

The number of ghost groups and their positioning in the battlefield hexes is related to the position of the abandoned mine on the adventure map.
Repeating the combat in the same abandoned mine always gives the same number of groups and the same positioning of the ghosts, even if the scenario is completely restarted.
The number of ghosts is different when the scenario is completely restarted, but is always the same during the same scenario session.
This is certainly determined at the start of the scenario for all abandoned mines.

@undef21 @LeHerosInconnu

It is mentioned here that the number of ghosts can be in the range of 30-60:

https://handbookhmm.ru/2-objects

This is consistent with what I have observed.

In original game:

30 ghosts:

60 ghosts:

Originally posted by @LeHerosInconnu in #5651 (comment)

Save file

Here are the save files:
Abandoned mine 01.zip

Additional info

Related issues: #5662, #5663.
Related discussion: #5664.

[undef21]

@LeHerosInconnu how ghosts should be placed in case total count < 5

[LeHerosInconnu]

Hello @undef21,

@LeHerosInconnu how ghosts should be placed in case total count < 5

Four groups of one creature (4 ghosts), or three groups of one creature (3 ghosts), or two groups of one creature (2 ghosts), or one group of 1 creature (1 ghost), always from the hexagon at the top of the screen. :)

[undef21]

Hm, according fheroes2 code the total ghosts count is 39-45. Does OG have same count?

[oleg-derevenetz]

Hm, according fheroes2 code the total ghosts count is 39-45. Does OG have same count?

Please remember that ghosts may arrive also under the following circumstances:

1. Using the Haunt adventure spell (IIRC numbers are dependent on hero's Spell Power, but I'm not sure about this). Anyway I'm totally sure that their numbers may be less than 39 in this case;
2. When they defeat the hero's army, their numbers may increase during the battle up to literally any numbers (depending on the size of the defeated army). All these additional ghosts then remain on the tile.

[undef21]

@oleg-derevenetz it's all true.
Look at src/fheroes2/maps/maps_tiles_quantity.cpp:815. The possible counts of ghosts are 39, 42, 45. And look at @LeHerosInconnu's screenshots. He attacked the mine twice or OG placed ghost with another way.

[LeHerosInconnu]

Hello @undef21 and @oleg-derevenetz,

I will do a more complete test on the subject. :)

[oleg-derevenetz]

@undef21 @LeHerosInconnu

It is mentioned here that the number of ghosts can be in the range of 30-60:

https://handbookhmm.ru/2-objects

[LeHerosInconnu]

Hello @undef21 and @oleg-derevenetz,

Hello @undef21 and @oleg-derevenetz,

I will do a more complete test on the subject. :)

Here is what I have observed in Heroes 2:

Abandoned Mine:

The ghosts can be divided into three configurations:

• 5 groups
• 4 groups
• 3 groups

In original game:

The number of ghosts does not increase or decrease if the combat is not won and another combat is started on the same abandoned mine.
If there are 30 ghosts at the beginning of the combat and the hero reduces this number to 15 ghosts before fleeing, there will still be 30 ghosts at the next combat.
If there are 30 ghosts at the beginning of the combat and the number of ghosts is increased to 45 ghosts before the hero flees, there will still be 30 ghosts in the next combat.

The number of ghost groups and their positioning in the battlefield hexes is related to the position of the abandoned mine on the adventure map.
Repeating the combat in the same abandoned mine always gives the same number of groups and the same positioning of the ghosts, even if the scenario is completely restarted.
The number of ghosts is different when the scenario is completely restarted, but is always the same during the same scenario session.
This is certainly determined at the start of the scenario for all abandoned mines.

@undef21 @LeHerosInconnu

It is mentioned here that the number of ghosts can be in the range of 30-60:

https://handbookhmm.ru/2-objects

This is consistent with what I have observed.

In original game:

30 ghosts:

60 ghosts:

While I was at it, I also did a test on ghosts in the other places concerning them.

Shipwreck:

It works the same way as for the abandoned mine:

• The number of ghosts does not increase or decrease if the combat is not won and another combat is started on the same shipwreck.
• The number of ghost groups and their positioning in the battlefield hexes is related to the position of the shipwreck on the adventure map.
  ...
  This is certainly determined at the start of the scenario for all shipwrecks.

In original game:

The reward works this way:

• win the combat against 10 ghosts gives 1000 gold (30%).
• win the combat against 15 ghosts gives 2000 gold (30%).
• win the combat against 25 ghosts gives 5000 gold (30%).
• win the combat against 50 ghosts gives 2000 gold and 1 random artifact (10%).

Note: I have used the percentage given on this page: https://handbookhmm.ru/2-objects.

In original game:

10 ghosts:

15 ghosts:

25 ghosts:

50 ghosts:

Haunt spell:

Here again, it works in the same way as for the abandoned mine regarding the number of ghost groups and their positioning in the hexes of the battlefield, which is therefore related to the position of the mine on the adventure map.

The total number of ghosts generated corresponds to 4 ghosts multiplied by the hero's Spell Power value.

In the case of the Haunt spell, the number of ghosts is conserved over the course of the combats if the first combat is not won, and it can therefore increase or decrease if another combat is started on the same haunted mine.

In original game:

Kastore generates 12 ghosts (4 x 3 Spell Power) before attacking them:

Kastore reduced the number of ghosts to 6 before running away and attacking them again:

Innocent peasants are sent to feed the ghosts for the purpose of the demonstration: :)

Kastore attacks again the ghosts whose number has been increased by the martyr imposed on these brave peasants, peace to their souls:

I will do a test, certainly tomorrow, with fheroes2 to compare how it goes.
I will change the title and the original post of this issue after my test with fheroes2.

Here is the test scenario file:
0 9930.zip

[oleg-derevenetz]

The number of ghosts does not increase or decrease if the combat is not won and another combat is started on the same abandoned mine.

I can already say that in fheroes2 it isn't like this. In fheroes2 number of ghosts may be decreased after unsuccessful battle (unsuccessful for a hero OFC) and even increased - just like with other wandering monsters or guardians. I believe this looks more natural BTW.

[LeHerosInconnu]

@oleg-derevenetz.

The number of ghosts does not increase or decrease if the combat is not won and another combat is started on the same abandoned mine.

I can already say that in fheroes2 it isn't like this. In fheroes2 number of ghosts may be decreased after unsuccessful battle (unsuccessful for a hero OFC) and even increased - just like with other wandering monsters or guardians. I believe this looks more natural BTW.

I already know that there are differences with fheroes2, and I was wondering if this working mode should be offered as an option because it is different from the original game.
Something like this:

"world: number of ghosts is memorized at the end of a combat not won in the places concerning them"

This working mode could eventually be extended to other places on the adventure map like the Graveyard, Dragon City, etc.

[LeHerosInconnu]

Hello @undef21 and @oleg-derevenetz,

I will do a test, certainly tomorrow, with fheroes2 to compare how it goes.
I will change the title and the original post of this issue after my test with fheroes2.

So I did my test with fheroes2 and here are my observations:

Abandoned Mine:

• The number of ghosts can evolve over the combats, unlike the original game.
• There is a different number of ghosts than in the original game.
• There is a different number of ghost groups and the positioning of these ghost groups than in the original game.

Shipwreck:

• The number of ghosts cannot evolve over the combats, as in the original game.
• There is a different number of ghosts than in the original game.
• There is a different number of ghost groups and the positioning of these ghost groups than in the original game.

Haunt spell:

• The number of ghosts can evolve over the combats, as in the original game.
• There is a number of ghosts similar to the original game.
• There is a different number of ghost groups and the positioning of these ghost groups than in the original game.

I will change the title and the original post of this issue and open new issues for the other places concerning ghosts.

I'm not against the idea that the number of ghosts evolves over the course of the combats and I'll open a discussion about it.
This could also be applied to other places on the adventure map, like the Graveyard, Dragon city, etc. (#6883)

[ihhub]

Hi @oleg-derevenetz , did we fix this issue?

[oleg-derevenetz]

Hi @ihhub not quite. Currently the Haunted mine and Abandoned mine in fheroes2 are the same, and number of ghosts is conserved between battles for both types of mines, while in the OG it is not conserved in case of Abandoned mine. The current behavior looks more natural to me (since the number of Ghosts is conserved in Shipwrecks too, so I have no idea why it should not be conserved in Abandoned mines), but still it's the difference, so I didn't close this issue.

[Branikolog]

Hi, @oleg-derevenetz and @ihhub
I think, the number of ghosts should be conserved for all similar objects.

[oleg-derevenetz]

Hi @Branikolog @ihhub The current logic of conservation of guardians is as described by @LeHerosInconnu here:

#5651 (comment)

So it seems that eventually we will need to make Haunted mine and Abandoned mine different objects (now they are effectively the same) and apply a different logic regarding conservation of guardians between battles.