Add icons for popular sports pitches #3651
Conversation
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Adding icons on pitches is helpful. These features are already rendered, so
this PR will be improving the existing map rendering.
The icons look very intuitive on the pitches, except perhaps for the
basketball backboard. I don’t recall if a ball icon was tested instead, but
perhaps that would be easier to recognize?
I am a little concerned about adding sport icons on nodes without a pitch.
This is less intuitive and will be adding new features to the map, rather
than improving existing features.
…On Sun, Jan 20, 2019 at 8:25 AM Adamant36 ***@***.***> wrote:
*Formalities*
This PR adds icons for popular sports pitches. The sports included in the
PR are baseball, basketball, soccer, and tennis.
In light of the recent discussion surrounding icon bloat, I thought it was
a better idea to split PRs for sports icons based on popularity of the
tags. While some tags sports like shooting have comparatively low tagging
number and therefore might be a harder sell and therefore less chance of
being added, all the sports in this PR have relatively high numbers and
there is clearly demand, along with need, for them to be added to be added
to the map. In fact, they all have much larger usage numbers then
sport=swimming. Which currently has an icon. In general, sports pitches are
good candidates for icons in respect to clutter due to them usually having
a wide area that doesn't contain other types of icon inside of it.
Advantages of merging this PR
1. It will display icons and names of pitches for these sports when
mapped as nodes
2. It will help people to tell what specific sport a pitch is for in
places with multiple pitches. Along with weather the sport=* tag is added
to the specific pitch or not.
3. It will hopefully reduce the amount of pitches that get tagged with
the name of the sport the pitch is used for (examples of the problem can be
seen in a few of the test renderings).
4. It will reduce the amount of issues opened and questions asked
related to adding sports icons (although minor, its still a benefit).
Disadvantages
1. It expands the code in the amenity file a little more then id like.
Although it could potentially be dealt with by compacting the code more, I
don't have the skills to do it myself. So it would have to done in a
separate issue by someone else.
2. ?
*Test renderings*
baseball
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/37.33632/-121.86619 (way)
[image: baseball way]
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/30259065/51433382-dd995480-1bfd-11e9-8d6f-eb91d6a11782.png>
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/38.79903/-122.54894 (node)
[image: baseball node]
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/30259065/51433385-e722bc80-1bfd-11e9-8e7a-96279e0ae5cc.png>
basketball
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/38.16716/-122.23726 (way)
[image: basketball way]
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/30259065/51433392-03265e00-1bfe-11e9-8cbe-0dbda64b4e8d.png>
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/38.79903/-122.54894 (node)
[image: basketball node]
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/30259065/51433396-1a654b80-1bfe-11e9-8ee9-09e3d91c4f13.png>
soccer
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/37.97576/-122.53391 (way)
[image: soccer way]
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/30259065/51433408-2cdf8500-1bfe-11e9-9701-d3c70161dd10.png>
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/38.68179/-121.44361 (node)
[image: soccer node]
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/30259065/51433412-3d8ffb00-1bfe-11e9-8c33-1c0fe7a0d1a7.png>
tennis
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/38.16685/-122.23624 (way)
[image: tennis way]
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/30259065/51433416-51d3f800-1bfe-11e9-884b-e556454bc8de.png>
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/38.46384/-123.00969 (node)
[image: tennis node]
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/30259065/51433420-5d272380-1bfe-11e9-819e-a6d9b3fd611f.png>
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You can view, comment on, or merge this pull request online at:
#3651
Commit Summary
- add icons for popular sports pitches
File Changes
- *M* amenity-points.mss
<https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/3651/files#diff-0>
(37)
- *M* project.mml
<https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/3651/files#diff-1>
(12)
- *A* symbols/sport/baseball.svg
<https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/3651/files#diff-2>
(56)
- *A* symbols/sport/basketball.svg
<https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/3651/files#diff-3>
(38)
- *A* symbols/sport/soccer.svg
<https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/3651/files#diff-4>
(39)
- *A* symbols/sport/tennis.svg
<https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/3651/files#diff-5>
(35)
Patch Links:
- https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/3651.patch
- https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/pull/3651.diff
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I'm not 100% sure about adding icons on nodes either. Its not wrong tagging though. The wiki says pitches can be mapped as nodes and that its the preferred method where the boundary of the pitch is not clear. 35,915 of them are tagged that way. So, "adding extra features" isn't necessarily bad when its how the tag is used. To me, that's just proper rendering. Ultimately if only 35,915 out of 1,437,809 are rendered as nodes its an extremely small amount and probably won't make that much of a difference when it comes to map clutter anyway. Also, only a small fraction of those are probably included in these sports. Plus, its not an issue with swimming. So there's no reason to make it one here. Otherwise, swimming node rendering should be removed. |
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I am not convinced by this. Reasons:
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Is this because of the color or the icon shape or size? I didn't want to bring it up, considering all the other icons colors that need adjustment, but I do think that the leisure-icon color could be less saturated. Perhaps basing the color off of
Most of the soccer balls that I've bought here in Indonesia, as well as in Costa Rica and in the USA, have used this classic pattern. It was introduced at the 1970 World Cup in Mexico, the first to be broadcast on TV.
Good point. Would you support using this symbol for other racket sports as well, or are you suggesting not rendering any of these?
Yes, that should be fixed. |
amenity-points.mss
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| @@ -218,6 +218,34 @@ | |||
| marker-clip: false; | |||
| } | |||
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| [feature = 'leisure_pitch'][sport = 'baseball'][zoom >= 17] { | |||
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You can combine all the sports under one `[feature = 'leisure_pitch'] rather than repeating this 4 times, eg:
[feature = 'leisure_pitch'][sport != null][zoom >= 18] {
marker-fill: @leisure-green;
marker-placement: interior;
marker-clip: false;
[sport = 'baseball'] {
marker-file: url('symbols/sport/baseball.svg');
}
[sport = 'basketball'] {
marker-file: url('symbols/sport/basketball.svg');
... etc.
And then add a SQL query in project.mml , I think something like:
CASE WHEN tags->'sport' IN ('baseball', 'basketball', 'soccer', 'tennis') then sport ELSE NULL as sport,
instead of tags->'sport' as sport, - this will prevent a generic marker from rendering for pitches without one of the specified sports.
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I might give it a try. If not, maybe someone else can do it later after its implemented. I was under the impression that its better not to do an SQL query if you don't have to though. Since its what slows down rendering. There's enough CASE WHEN tags-> instances already in my opinion.
@jeisenbe, the only other racket sport that has enough usage for rendering is table tennis and it had a different icon (its not really a "racket" sport anyway either). There is badminton with 1993 uses, but know one requested it or any other racket sports in the original issue. The only other similar one I could find on tag info is Paddle tennis with 346 uses and its essentially just tennis. So there isn't even any other racket sports on taginfo that would even be requested. If badminton ever was it would probably have a shuttlecock in the icon with the racket. That being said, I don't see why the symbol couldn't be generalized to other racket sports if ever was any, but that's no different then other icons for other tags that are similar with each other. |
amenity-points.mss
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| @@ -2565,10 +2593,17 @@ | |||
| [feature = 'leisure_ice_rink'], | |||
| [feature = 'leisure_pitch'] { | |||
| text-fill: darken(@pitch, 40%); | |||
| [sport = 'baseball'], | |||
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If you add the SQL query as suggested above, you can change this to [sport != null] instead of writing up a long list, I think.
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I agree, it should be safe enough to add generic text-dy, so please change it.
It would be great if we could design a good generic icon for multisport pitches, or pitches without sport=*, to address this. I don't recall seeing an example. Does anyone have a idea of an icon that would work? |
It is a combination of different aspects. Combining subtlety and readability is hard but there are many possibilities you can try - both within the idea of using a point symbol and outside of it.
Note the current pitch outline color is also in quite serious disharmony with the fill color which obviously does not help in that regard.
I have no opinion on this but i expect a consistent and viable concept for how this is to be handled. And as said a broader reconsideration of the general approach for differentiating different sports would be advisable instead of just looking at individual symbols. And in terms of point symbols by the way there is hardly any other thematic field where there is a broader body of pre-existing work on consistent symbolizations than in the fields of sports. From my point of view therefore the expectation that an initiative to add differentiated sport symbology is accompanied by an overall design concept for this is not exorbitant. |
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@jeisenbe, do you want me to try testing the icons with the pitch color instead of the park color? Or do you think its a waste of time? |
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It's certainly reasonable to consider how the sport symbols will look compared to the pitch outline and fill color. If you don't mind, I'd suggest trying some different colors for these icons. As discussed in #3641, there is plenty of room for another icon color on the bluer side of green, which would be more similar to the pitch color. The fill color for An icon color based off of this would be LCH(60,35,168), I'd also suggest trying a more harmonious outline color for pitches, so that the outline does not clash with the color of the icons. Let's try Pitch, new outline, new sport icon color, park color:
Test rendering in Wamena with
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Yes, that is much better. I agree on the starting zoom level as well - in particular in case of tennis pitches, it is common to have several of these side by side and the starting zoom level needs to be chosen so that symbols do not block each others at the starting zoom levels leading to arbitrary and confusing selection which to show and which not to show. Near the equator this is probably a problem even at z18 with a 14 pixel symbol: |
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@jeisenbe, thanks for the test. It looks a lot better. I agree the zoom could use adjusting to. I was thinking z18 but z19 might work also. As well as your way pixel idea. I guess it needs testing. |
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No need to check way_pixels if we go with z19 as in the test images in the
top post.
Optionally, it might work to render baseball and soccer at z18 with tennis
at z19?
…On Mon, Jan 21, 2019 at 11:38 PM Adamant36 ***@***.***> wrote:
@jeisenbe <https://github.com/jeisenbe>, thanks for the test. It looks a
lot better. I agree the zoom could use adjusting to. I was thinking z18 but
z19 might work also. As well as your way pixel idea. I guess it needs
testing.
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If someone still has a problem with the racket icon for tennis (I don't have such a problem), here is an alternative icon: EDIT: Icon updated 10 min ago |
I assume supporting the comma-separaded list of sports would reduce the incentive to tag multi-use pitches with several pitch nodes. Here is some icon with a soccer and a volleyball: |
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@jeisenbe, where's @pitch-outline: found in the code? All I can find is Really, I rather it just be done in another issue. Since it had nothing to do with the icons in the first place. Also, what color do you think should be used for the icon text? It's currently |
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I changed to the icon to what @jeisenbe, suggested and went with the icon color darkened by 40% for the text. It looks good to me. I also changed the zoom levels to z18 for baseball and soccer, along with z19 for basketball and tennis. The pitch outline can be changed in another issue. I don't feel like doing it and it wasn't the purpose of the original PR anyway. So if someone wants to review the PR so it can be merged and I can get on to other things, id appreciate it.
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The pitch outline can be changed in another issue.
Agreed.
…On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 2:20 PM Adamant36 ***@***.***> wrote:
I changed to the icon to what @jeisenbe <https://github.com/jeisenbe>,
suggested and went with the icon color darkened by 40% for the text. It
looks good to me. I also changed the zoom levels to z18 for baseball and
soccer, along with z19 for basketball and tennis. The pitch outline can be
changed in another issue. I don't feel like doing it and it wasn't the
purpose of the original PR anyway. So if someone wants to review the PR so
it can be merged and I can get on to other things, id appreciate it.
[image: sports icon color change]
<https://user-images.githubusercontent.com/30259065/51796900-44df7780-21af-11e9-9231-9aab6f5558fd.png>
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amenity-points.mss
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| @@ -2565,10 +2593,17 @@ | |||
| [feature = 'leisure_ice_rink'], | |||
| [feature = 'leisure_pitch'] { | |||
| text-fill: darken(@pitch, 40%); | |||
| [sport = 'baseball'], | |||
There was a problem hiding this comment.
I agree, it should be safe enough to add generic text-dy, so please change it.
amenity-points.mss
Outdated
| } | ||
| } | ||
| } | ||
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Please remove trailing spaces.
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I did what @jeisenbe suggested and it didn't work. Maybe you or him can look over it and tell me what I did wrong. SQL isn't really my area of expertise.
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Not to be a jerk or anything, but does it matter what at all what I feel doing with a PR or not? I was fine with it being rejected if the code was to complicated. Now its extra work that I didn't want to do and @jeisenbe could have done himself in another PR. Since he's the one that suggested it and knows how to do that stuff. It does zero good though if I screw the PR up in the process of trying to implement something I don't have the knowledge how to do. Or I probably would have just done it that way in the first place. I'm lucky I got the icons to render as it was.
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@imagico You have brought multiple issues, but I don't follow the changes. Is there still something blocking merging this code from your point of view? |
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Yes, both the arguments brought up here and those in #3635. |
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It's not clear for me - which two out of seven are still to be resolved? #3635 is even less clear to me (no core problem I could identify), but my impression was that this is not "big city" feature, so this should not be a problem? |
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I need to fix the SQL anyway. After that though, I don't see how it would be a problem with #3635. Imagico, you said so yourself that you weren't against new icons per say, this seems like a good place to allow them. I've seen no good argument otherwise. |
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Oh, I just got it - "both" as in both places, not "both from here", sorry. What I'd like to know is:
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I gave my assessment and the reasoning behind it - both here and in #3635. If that changes i will say so. I would like to add that while there are some relatively specific - technical if you want so - issues i mentioned with this PR the lack of a sustainable outlook for both point symbol rendering in general and for sports infrastructure specifically is a major blocker. Therefore at this point working on a consensus on #3635 through arguments and evidence, by developing sustainable concepts for the future of POI symbol rendering in this style would probably be the advisable approach to the matter. |
It doesn't seem like #3635 is going anywhere. Your the only that's had any real complaints about it, which aren't even clear. It would be none sustainable (I don't know what a good word is) to put the rendering of all new features or icons on hold until your satisfied. Even if it was more then just you that had a problem with it, plenty of "meta tickets" have gone know where, we haven't not modified or added things related to those in the mean time though, and I don't think #3635 should be treated any different.
As vague as you where about those issues, there won't be a sustainable outlook on either of them until your clearer on what specific issues you have. Especially with "sports infrastructure." I'm not trying to make it personal, but again your the only person that has taken issue with it out of all of the conversation there has been over the last five years on it and I still have no idea what your specific problem is. |
For me this sustainable outlook would be something like "sport infrastructure should be rendered using shades of green different than vegetation (unless the context does make it clear), individual sports could be indicated by icon symbol related to it". For point symbols in general it's harder of course, but I would draft it more or less like "Point symbols are used for relatively small features, but can be also used for making some areas easier to understand. There's only limited set of colors that could be distinguished, but there are multiple shapes that could be recognized, especially using similar colors to show they belong to the same group". I don't see much use in defining it more specific, it is the role of ticket discussions to get to the details of implementation. For example golf takes a lot of place, so should be rendered earlier (and it is), while table tennis takes small space, so this should happen at the highest zoom levels. |
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"Twiddles thumbs"
It seems like you defined it well enough. Can we take @imagico's silence/none specifics here and in #3635 that we can move along with this? I think 21 days without more being said is long enough to wait and I'd like to see this either get merged or closed. Whatever else needs to be said about a "sustainable outlook for symbol rendering" or whatever can be done in another ticket if need be. If I remember correctly, @jeisenbe did a PR for the pitch outline color correction. I'm not sure what else needed to be done on it. Maybe he can refresh my memory if anything else needs doing and assuming the PR doesn't just get closed. |
He said that if he changes his mind, he would tell it, so obviously no. However lack of any reply does not help finding a common ground. @imagico (and @matkoniecz, since he added 👍), could you tell what can be done now to reach acceptable solution? |
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I have not commented any further because there so far is nothing to add to what i already commented. As said there are issues i pointed out that are of fairly technical nature that could be addressed specifically on this PR. @jeisenbe above well demonstrated that once you do that you can immediately get to improvements. But as also pointed out the bigger problem is developing consensus on #3635. Therefore i already recommended three weeks ago to concentrate on that. @matthijsmelissen promised he would look at that again when time allows and i look forward to his comments. From the maintainers so far i think @sommerluk is the only one who has not articulated an opinion on #3635 so his views would be very valuable there as well. |
That makes sense. I guess I'm not clear on what specifically those technical issues or their solutions are. Maybe you could put it in terms a layman like myself can understand?
I agree consensus there is important. Issues like that tend to take a really long time to resolve and usually stall end getting stalled out instead though. There's plenty of other issues like it that have gone know where. So I disagree that all development on new features should be stopped until its worked out. Since it could potentially take years or just not be worked out ultimately. Generally, how things are implemented should be changed when new guidelines are written, but not halted just because a discussion about it is happening or in anticipation of a guideline change that might not happen. Id say that applies to any type of organization. Not just here. There's plenty of meta issues around where we continue developing things related to them while they were still being worked out. There's no reason #3635 should be a particular exception. |
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Well - at this point i see no consensus forming on this PR without consensus on #3635. So the options would be to put this on hold until we have found a way forward on #3635 or to reject this. You can also try to make changes here to turn this into a change that finds approval on its own but as said this would be difficult because of the fundamental concerns that reflect things also discussed in #3635 so i am reluctant to recommend investing a lot of work here with unclear outcome. I can see some options to indicate sport types on pitches that i could probably support and there might be others i don't see but those all would probably go more in the direction of a new PR than a development of this one. |
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@matkoniecz, what's your specific issue with it? |
Which? May I remind you that the idea to indicate sport types on pitches with icons originally came from @matthijsmelissen (see #844)? |
I don't know - i have not given this much thought. But given that so far only one very specific and fairly non-innovative idea has been suggested and the problems this comes with my intuition says that other options in the cartographic repertoire available are likely more promising. But i can't really tell until someone thinks this through more thoroughly and outside the box so to speak. I already mentioned above in #3651 (comment) that sport symbology is is a vast field with plenty of pre-existing work to draw inspiration from. But i don't want to pressure anyone to work in a specific direction. Every developer should be free to work on the problems they are interested in using the methods they prefer. As a maintainer i mainly try to make sure changes keep the style on a sustainable path in line with the purposes of the project. |
@imagico, it would still be good to know what your opinion on how z19 should be used is. Your one of the maintainers and if your fine saying you don't like something I'm not sure what the difference is. Since your already pressuring people away from a specific direction. A while back I went off about how I think z18 is under utilized. It mostly feel on def ears though. There's a few other zoom levels besides it that could used better to in my opinion. There should be some basic idea of what each zoom levels purpose is. So id like to know what your thoughts are on it. |
Formalities
This PR adds icons for popular sports pitches. The sports included in the PR are baseball, basketball, soccer, and tennis.
In light of the recent discussion surrounding icon bloat, I thought it was a better idea to split PRs for sports icons based on popularity of the tags. While some tags sports like shooting have comparatively low tagging number and therefore might be a harder sell and therefore less chance of being added, all the sports in this PR have relatively high numbers and there is clearly demand, along with need, for them to be added to be added to the map. In fact, they all have much larger usage numbers then sport=swimming. Which currently has an icon. In general, sports pitches are good candidates for icons in respect to clutter due to them usually having a wide area that doesn't contain other types of icon inside of it.
Advantages of merging this PR
Disadvantages
Test renderings
baseball
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/37.33632/-121.86619 (way)
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/38.79903/-122.54894 (node)
basketball
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/38.16716/-122.23726 (way)
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/38.79903/-122.54894 (node)
soccer
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/37.97576/-122.53391 (way)
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/38.68179/-121.44361 (node)
tennis
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/38.16685/-122.23624 (way)
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/38.46384/-123.00969 (node)