-
Notifications
You must be signed in to change notification settings - Fork 821
New issue
Have a question about this project? Sign up for a free GitHub account to open an issue and contact its maintainers and the community.
By clicking “Sign up for GitHub”, you agree to our terms of service and privacy statement. We’ll occasionally send you account related emails.
Already on GitHub? Sign in to your account
stop rendering shop=yes #3697
Comments
What changed since #2099:
|
After #2415 it sounds sane for me. I don't feel 3.44%->4.05% in ~3 years is a serious problem growth, but since with a little effort (adding anything more specific - we don't force what should it be) rendering can be fixed, I guess we can go for it anyway. |
Related issues: see openstreetmap/iD#5955 and https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/17377 I will wait before making a PR, maybe people will present good reasons why shop=yes is a valid tagging. And in any case it is desirable that validators (or at least JOSM validator) will emit warnings before rendering changes. |
In cases where there isn't a good sub-tag to use but its still useful for the name and default dot to display? Its also helpful to have the dot there with the other ones when your zoomed out so you know the building isn't empty or not mapped yet. |
The idea is to start tagging |
Except I know its an ear piercing shop. I tend not to just tag things randomly like that though, because it usually spurs messages later by certain users about how I should have used a different tag instead. That's a side issues though, but its probably part of why people use shop=yes when they do. |
It is technically fine, but since shop is so generic, I'd like to avoid generic value and promote specific ones this way. If the scale of it were broad (like |
Maybe it will force people to come up with new shop tags for the types of shops that don't have any yet at least. |
You are free to be first one to use the new tag and that would be better than using shop=yes. And with current rendering any shop values are displayed so nothing would be lost as far as displaying in this map style goes (not sure about other map styles, but anyway better data is better than better rendering in the immediate future). |
https://josm.openstreetmap.de/ticket/17377#comment:4 - JOSM now warns about |
And to explain why in some cases I was unsure whatever stopping rendering of far less popular tags is a good idea and opposed oy and now I want to stop rendering of something used 150k times: I see significant difference between "tag was used, considered as a good tagging and now it is declared deprecated" and "tag was never considered as a good tagging". In the first case people deprecating things may be mistaken or overenthusiastic and I really would prefer to avoid using this map style for deprecating tags. Primarily to ensure that discussions "is it something that should deprecated" will not take place on this issue tracker - what would be a bad thing for multiple reasons. While on other hand reducing use of tagging that was never desirable is perfectly OK - even if it is popular. |
👍 |
Just to clarify - at the moment all shop tags are rendered except 'no', 'vacant', 'closed', 'disused', 'empty', and you want to add 'yes' to that list? If so, I would agree with that. I think I've added some shop=yes objects because there wasn't a good enough tag and to get it rendered. But if it's going to be rendered anyway, might as well try to come up with a better tag. |
yes, exactly |
JOSM and Osmose are now complaining (see http://osmose.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/#zoom=17&lat=50.0681&lon=19.9404&item=9002&level=1%2C2%2C3&tags=&fixable= for JOSM deprecation warnings, including for |
fixes gravitystorm#3697 Originally only shop with their own icons were rendered. Later popular shop values were also rendered - as dots without icons. This was deliberate decision to not render cases like shop=supermarkte Since gravitystorm#2415 all shop values except 'no', 'vacant', 'closed', 'disused', 'empty' are rendered. Given that any, even never used shop value is rendered and shop=yes is unreasonably popular it is deisrable to encourage more specific shop tagging. It may encourage using some new shop values and in some cases people will mistakenly create new tags duplicating existing ones, but standard shop types are still encouraged by using icons. shop tag currently has long tail of unusual shop types (with most tagged correctly - for example , some shop like this really exist), so data consumers need anyway some startegy for handling rare shop types. is currenly reported as a tagging mistake by decent validators (for example JOSM and Osmose). Note that this is not deprecation of a tag but stopping to render a deprecated tag. This tag was never considered as a sufficient for tagging shop type
fixes gravitystorm#3697 Originally only shop with their own icons were rendered. Later popular shop values were also rendered - as dots without icons. This was deliberate decision to not render cases like shop=supermarkte Since gravitystorm#2415 all shop values except 'no', 'vacant', 'closed', 'disused', 'empty' are rendered. Given that any, even never used shop value is rendered and `shop=yes` is unreasonably popular it is desirable to encourage more specific shop tagging. Dropping `shop=yes` may encourage using some new shop values and in some cases people will mistakenly create new tags duplicating existing ones, but standard shop types are still encouraged by using icons. shop tag currently has long tail of unusual shop types (with most tagged correctly - for example `shop=maps`, some shop like this really exist), so data consumers need anyway some strategy for handling rare shop types. `shop=yes` is currenly reported as a tagging mistake by decent validators (for example JOSM and Osmose). Note that this is not deprecation of a tag but stopping to render a deprecated tag. This tag was never considered as a sufficient for tagging shop type
PR #3718 is created, I posted to talk mailing list (second one may be a mistake). |
fixes gravitystorm#3697 Originally only shop with their own icons were rendered. Later popular shop values were also rendered - as dots without icons. This was deliberate decision to not render tags with mistakes like shop=supermarkte Since gravitystorm#2415 all shop values except 'no', 'vacant', 'closed', 'disused', 'empty' are rendered. Given that any, even never used shop value is rendered and `shop=yes` is unreasonably popular it is desirable to encourage more specific shop tagging. Dropping `shop=yes` may encourage using some new shop values and in some cases people will mistakenly create new tags duplicating existing ones, but standard shop types are still encouraged by using icons. shop tag currently has long tail of unusual shop types (with most tagged correctly - for example `shop=maps`, some shop like this really exist), so data consumers need anyway some strategy for handling rare shop types. `shop=yes` is currenly reported as a tagging mistake by decent validators (for example JOSM and Osmose). Note that this is not deprecation of a tag but stopping to render a deprecated tag. This tag was never considered as a sufficient for tagging shop type
fixes #3697 Originally only shop with their own icons were rendered. Later popular shop values were also rendered - as dots without icons. This was deliberate decision to not render tags with mistakes like shop=supermarkte Since #2415 all shop values except 'no', 'vacant', 'closed', 'disused', 'empty' are rendered. Given that any, even never used shop value is rendered and `shop=yes` is unreasonably popular it is desirable to encourage more specific shop tagging. Dropping `shop=yes` may encourage using some new shop values and in some cases people will mistakenly create new tags duplicating existing ones, but standard shop types are still encouraged by using icons. shop tag currently has long tail of unusual shop types (with most tagged correctly - for example `shop=maps`, some shop like this really exist), so data consumers need anyway some strategy for handling rare shop types. `shop=yes` is currenly reported as a tagging mistake by decent validators (for example JOSM and Osmose). Note that this is not deprecation of a tag but stopping to render a deprecated tag. This tag was never considered as a sufficient for tagging shop type
add link to this strange idea https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2019-March/082268.html (thread not related to the idea that shop=yes is an error, but about shop=yes can be improved) |
I find it slightly amusing that there is a rampage to suppress slightly unspecific, but not wrong tagging, but on the other hand #371 still goes unfixed that actively promotes wrong tagging. |
@simonpoole - the issue in question is #214 - #371 was rejected not because of the idea of fixing access tag rendering but because it only considers motorcar - which is not really sufficient to address the problem. Access tagging of roads is complicated - see https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:access#Land-based_transportation and someone would need to develop a scheme to render this in a suitable form without introducing a too large number of different styling variants to reasonably display on a general purpose map. |
@simonpoole, I think you mean to reference issue #214? We can discuss there. |
@imagico access tagging might be complicated, but either not rendering it at all (my suggestion) or alternatively rendering the restrictions for all vehicle types the same is not. As it stands you are directly promoting wrong tagging. |
Yes, removing rendering of access restrictions is definitely an option to consider - to be discussed on the respective issues - see #214 (comment). |
@simonpoole Mainly because fix here was trivial to implement, while for better access rendering there is not even pseudo code. Rendering motorcar as access would just encourage a different kind of incorrect rendering. |
Originally only shop with their own icons were rendered.
Later popular shop values were also rendered - as dots without icons. This was deliberate decision to not render cases like
shop=supermarkte
Since #2415 all shop values except
'no', 'vacant', 'closed', 'disused', 'empty'
are rendered.In #2099 I proposed to stop rendering
shop=yes
to encourage more specific tagging but it was rejected.I propose to reconsider this as since that time usage of
shop=yes
is increasing what is undesirable.In 2016 "Shop=yes is used only for 3.44% of all the shop types" and "10% of shop=yes are combined with amenity=fuel (from old? JOSM preset) which are not rendered anyway as shop." (quoted from #2099 (comment) and #2099 (comment) ). It was used 81 483 times ( #2099 (comment) )
Currently shop=yes usage is growing and reached 149 194 uses (4.05% of all shops). It includes 9 476
shop=yes
onamenity=fuel
(6.35% ofshop=yes
), for 139 718 unspecified shops.EDIT: 149 222 at 2019-02-25
The text was updated successfully, but these errors were encountered: