Make tram and bus stops more similar

[matthijsmelissen]

Tram and bus stops are rendered rather different at the moment. They use a different color, different positioning of the name (above versus below), and different minimum zoom level. It might be nice to at least partially unify this.

[matkoniecz]

Note that currently tram stop is unified with style for railway stations. Should we unify tram stops, bus stops and railway station or drop similarity in tram stop with railway station?

In Kraków trams are really close to buses in all aspects and not at all similar to railways (the same function, tickets, typical routes, operator, funded from the same source, integrated timetables etc) - but maybe in other places these things are shared with railways?

At least here it is really easy to distinguish trams and trains (despite the same gauge, in theory trams can use railway tracks - http://pojazdy.moontech.pl/tramwaj-105n-na-torach-kolejowych/ ). Maybe in some places it is much closer?

[dieterdreist]

2014-11-11 8:09 GMT+01:00 Mateusz Konieczny [email protected]:

In Kraków trams are really close to buses in all aspects and not at all
similar to railways (the same function, tickets, typical routes, operator,
funded from the same source, integrated timetables etc) - but maybe in
other places these things are shared with railways?

At least here it is really easy to distinguish trams and trains (despite
the same gauge, in theory trams can use railway tracks -
http://pojazdy.moontech.pl/tramwaj-105n-na-torach-kolejowych/ ). Maybe in
some places it is much closer?

yes, it depends in my experience on the trams sharing space with cars (i.e.
rails inside the road) and trams running on seperated rails (more similar
to light rail). In the first case they are similar to buses, in the second
typically not. Another case are trams running on pieces of road which are
reserved to psv (busses and/or taxis), and in this case there might be
shared stops for trams and busses, e.g. here:
https://www.google.it/maps/place/U+Oranienburger+Tor+%28Berlin%29/@52.5258778,13.3873757,3a,75y,186.73h,87.66t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sCoRmtM_vhPtTUsu5fK8pvg!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x47a851e990ec706f:0xe8938d257f02d633?hl=en-IT

[nebulon42]

I think unifying the public transport styles is desirable. To distinguish the different types I would suggest to keep rendering the stops earlier and later as it is now for railway, metro, tram, bus. Also, as there is an icon for bus stops at higher zoom levels, there could also be icons for railway, tram and metro stops.

One problem with using icons is that usually (at least) metro stations are marked with symbols at the entrances, but these differ from city to city.

[gravitystorm]

I'm happy to see the transport things brought closer together, e.g. by having similar colours / text between airports, trains, subways, trams, and buses. But they should remain distinct enough that they are easily recognisable.

[Tomasz-W]

@kocio-pl @Adamant36
Looking at few polish cities examples, where there are usually both tram stops and bus stops placed near bigger roads intersections. I find unifying their colour to transportation-blue as bad idea, because rail transport and road transport are two different things (eg. if there is some blackout or something, trams are stucked, but you still can go by a bus), so it should be intuively distinguishable.

Zoom any tram intersection to see: https://www.openstreetmap.org//#map=14/52.2314/21.0027

I can see another problem: similarity of station-blue #7981b0 and office-blue #4863A0.

Look here (office is a little bit on the right): https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/52.21658/20.98165

As I consider current station violetish blue shade as a little bit outdated for modern design, and I don't see any reason for keeping so small difference between some two colours, I think we can reuse office-blue shade for station colour. It would make map colours scheme simpler without making big effort.

What do you all think about this issue now?

[Adamant36]

@Tomasz-W, I was just thinking about this issue and was totally going to ask @kocio-pl what he thought about it. I agree that violetish blue shade is a little outdated. I don't know about going with the office color though. As it would be inconsistent. Unless we changed the color for offices to make it exclusive. The wider question is if everything transportation related should have the same color or not. I think it would simplify things if they did and make the map more coherent, there's advantages and disadvantages to both ways of doing it though.

I almost think it would be cool to make everything transport related, included motels/hotels/gas stations/bike parking/bus stops/airports/train stations etc etc as the same blue color as the parking icon. Then we could tell the difference between them with the square versus the circle, instead of by color, But I probably need to think about it more.

[Adamant36]

I wonder if its possible to do triangle dots. Then we could have circle/vehicle, train/square, plane/triangle, boat/?

[jragusa]

Triangles are already used for peaks. An other possibility is filled/empty squares. amenity=ferry_terminal has already an icon.

[Adamant36]

Oh yeah, duh. I forgot about peaks. I don't think anyone would confuse an airport for a peak if it was a different color/context. So, it might still be an option. But Filled/empty squares might work instead though.

[jragusa]

Yes you're right but it would be more consistent to have one icon for one feature unless they are very similar (e.g. natural=wood and landuse=forest).

An additional problem is that amenity=ferry_terminal, aeroway=aerodrome and amenity=bus_station have a detailled icon but not railway=station (square).

[Tomasz-W]

@Adamant36 I would start experimenting with this issue by proposed changing station colour to office-blue(it's the simplest to do), so if you would have time and will in future, please post some test renderings with this change here.

+1 For including airports.

[Adamant36]

@Tomasz-W id be happy to do that when I get some time. Maybe you could brain storm a new color for offices in the mean time and I'll test that along with it.

[Adamant36]

Would you have an issue with parking lot blue for everything transportation related and using circle/square icons instead though?

[Tomasz-W]

Would you have an issue with parking lot blue for everything transportation related and using circle/square icons instead though?

I consider it as bad idea for a reasons mentioned in #1127 (comment)

[Adamant36]

Hhmmm, well I dont think going with a color thats already established for a completely different feature is a good idea either. Maybe we can figure something else out. Although, a lot of the comments above are for color unification also and I think that should factor in. Even if they were older comments.

There's some other issues around about unifing tram/train/subway etc rendering. Maybe those should be looked over, considered with this one, and turned into a meta ticket or something. I think there was like 6 that I found. Theres definitely a slant towards less is more on them. Since its clearly over complicated. And if icon color is changing, maybe rendering as a whole should be worked out first. Otherwise, its putting the cart before the horse a little.

[jragusa]

I also note that squares are also used for bus stop at z16

[Tomasz-W]

Hhmmm, well I dont think going with a color thats already established for a completely different feature is a good idea either.

It wouldn't be something new, look at brown or gray in #3395 (comment). I'm not worried about including railway objects in office-blue, because they use bigger squares and own text style, and office objects uses smaller dots and other text style. They are very similar colours to each other now, so pushing railway colour a few shades forth propably wouldn't make big difference on map.

[kocio-pl]

This idea is quite complex, so I won't have enough focus to track this discussion, sorry. In general I believe we can show rails-based transport similar and car-based in a different way as currently.

I think about unifying transport for some time already (see #2094), but I started with using similar area color (taken from the airports), adding ferry terminals and showing terminal buildings as main. I also think it's worth to add heliports (even if they are not that popular). My experience is however that they are very different and not everything has to be touched (for example train station area is hard to show as a separate place, so I have used railway color).

[jeisenbe]

If train stations and tram stops had a more specific icon at >= 16, it would then be possible to use the same color for bus stops, tram stops and train stations, thus reducing the number of shades of blue. It could still be something abstract, like an unfilled square, just different enough from bus stops.