Lizzie v1.0 plans and suggest-a-feature

[featurecat]

I will be working on a rewrite of Lizzie for version 1.0 which we will jump to in maybe 4 months from now (but I reserve the right to delay if I need more time for perfection!)

Planned for 1.0 is:

• Title screen with menu for play, analyze, options, question, and more.
• Question mode lets you ask the AI to show you examples of what situations you should play one move versus another. Good for learning how to pick a joseki. This might lead us to new ways to extract knowledge from AIs.
• Enhanced graphics and menu systems, potentially smoother graphics.
• Play mode will be a much better experience than before. You can select the AI level (18kyu to 12d?)(and perhaps human style, if I can get some help training). Set game mode to rated/unrated, AI/Lizzie has some time settings so that they feel like real games, allow randomization of interesting openings so that the games are often different. Rated games track your progress over time and match you against even opponents. Ideally you could learn to play Go simply by using Lizzie.
• Better SGF editing mode.
• Better packaging across all operating systems (hopefully you won't have to deal with as many problems)
• More clear guidelines for developers, cleaner code, more consistency. Logs for better error reporting on GitHub.

This v1.0 is intended to be analogous to a step from beta to release. It won't be the final version, it combines the knowledge I've learned from the Lizzie project over the last 1.5 years into a necessary re-write.

1.0 is already into development (question mode has made serious progress). I'll release it as a public branch when the foundation is there and I'm ready to accept contributions.

I'm interested in your ideas for the 1.0 release version. Is there anything that you feel is an important improvement that can be made in a rewrite?

[diadorak]

Support for sai ?

[wonsiks]

It would be good if I can save reviewed game data into file.
It shouldn't be a sgf file but another format.
People who have no good GPU get reviewed file from other one then able to review that game without GPU power.
It's similar with GoReviewPartner.

[featurecat]

You can already do that in Lizzie 0.7.2, did you know? If it's not enabled I think you can enable that in settings to save review data to a sgf. That would definitely come to 1.0

…

On Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 9:23 AM Seventeen ***@***.***> wrote: It would be good if I can save reviewed game data into file. It shouldn't be a sgf file but another format. People who have no good GPU get reviewed file from other one then able to review that game without GPU power. It's similar with GoReviewPartner <https://github.com/pnprog/goreviewpartner>. — You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#671?email_source=notifications&email_token=ACQHLMS2HCEWHQOWEEJWWWDQ2AOIXA5CNFSM4J5KZPGKYY3PNVWWK3TUL52HS4DFVREXG43VMVBW63LNMVXHJKTDN5WW2ZLOORPWSZGOEHQAY4I#issuecomment-568331377>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACQHLMRDOILW2QDMIMFWTKTQ2AOIXANCNFSM4J5KZPGA> .

[wonsiks]

You can already do that in Lizzie 0.7.2, did you know? If it's not enabled I think you can enable that in settings to save review data to a sgf. That would definitely come to 1.0
…
On Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 9:23 AM Seventeen @.***> wrote: It would be good if I can save reviewed game data into file. It shouldn't be a sgf file but another format. People who have no good GPU get reviewed file from other one then able to review that game without GPU power. It's similar with GoReviewPartner https://github.com/pnprog/goreviewpartner. — You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#671?email_source=notifications&email_token=ACQHLMS2HCEWHQOWEEJWWWDQ2AOIXA5CNFSM4J5KZPGKYY3PNVWWK3TUL52HS4DFVREXG43VMVBW63LNMVXHJKTDN5WW2ZLOORPWSZGOEHQAY4I#issuecomment-568331377>, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACQHLMRDOILW2QDMIMFWTKTQ2AOIXANCNFSM4J5KZPGA .

I've already know "hold-bestmoves-to-sgf" option.
I didn't mean that.
I meant reviewed data contains variations of multi position just like an engine is connected while it's not connected.
You can check following youtube video even it's not in English.
https://youtu.be/AotWb-Cssrs

[wonsiks]

You can already do that in Lizzie 0.7.2, did you know? If it's not enabled I think you can enable that in settings to save review data to a sgf. That would definitely come to 1.0
…
On Mon, Dec 23, 2019, 9:23 AM Seventeen @.***> wrote: It would be good if I can save reviewed game data into file. It shouldn't be a sgf file but another format. People who have no good GPU get reviewed file from other one then able to review that game without GPU power. It's similar with GoReviewPartner https://github.com/pnprog/goreviewpartner. — You are receiving this because you authored the thread. Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#671?email_source=notifications&email_token=ACQHLMS2HCEWHQOWEEJWWWDQ2AOIXA5CNFSM4J5KZPGKYY3PNVWWK3TUL52HS4DFVREXG43VMVBW63LNMVXHJKTDN5WW2ZLOORPWSZGOEHQAY4I#issuecomment-568331377>, or unsubscribe https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ACQHLMRDOILW2QDMIMFWTKTQ2AOIXANCNFSM4J5KZPGA .

Oh, I've just found out what you said.
Sorry about not checked carefully.
Thank you a lot and always.
:)

P.S. I've found out a bug while testing.
When I open an saved sgf including reviewed data, the winrate area expands widely crossing the main board.

[BenRJDictus]

• Check for updated LZ and bjiyxo networks (and auto-update function)
• Allow / Avoid for KataGo

[wonsiks]

I've asked few Korean professional go players for this.
I'll write here when their suggestions have been gathered.
Thank you.

[siasio]

One small feature I would find cool: a possibility to save the winrate graph as an image (.jpg, .svg). They are just good-looking. Also there could be an option to save the analysis data as csv like in GoReviewPartner.

[wonsiks]

(Move stone by mouse dragging)
Some Korean pros want this function.
It would be better to use mouse drag than Alt+M.

[wonsiks]

(Multi board windows)
Lizzie can change engines.
If user want to see several AI's suggestion at the same time then multi board windows will helpful.
When change engine there could be an option that start engine in another new window.
You can see the sample via following movie clip.
https://youtu.be/DCjUZx7v9Ts

[cgibbard]

It's really nice that Lizzie/Leela don't lose information about game trees when I jump to other previously-explored points in the game tree now, but it might be nice if somehow when I go back to a previous move, the information about the explored game tree would be taken into account -- e.g. if I click a move which has only 500 visits, and then wait for it to have 300k playouts or something, when I go back to the previous position, it still only shows the 500 visits again, with the old winrate, even though Lizzie/LZ have more information available somewhere. It might mess with the MCTS a bit to really merge the trees, but for review, it would be really nice to at least be able to force better evaluations and see them side-by-side.

Edit: Oh, it seems that while Lizzie stores the previous visits and winrates when switching branches, LZ is still forced to reconstruct everything before those numbers will move again. It would be really nice if this weren't the case, and somehow we could get hold of the complete trees and save them so that analysis could resume from where it left off immediately as well. This is probably more of a LZ feature request than a Lizzie one, but it almost certainly involves coordination between the two. Of course, it would also be nice to save all that was computed to disk for later as well.

[Zacharias030]

A guess-the-next-move feature with AI feedback on the quality of your move, the actual move and the AI's top move :)

[Zacharias030]

How can I turn off the marker off the next move (that already gives it away)? If this is not possible, it's a feature request :)

[wonsiks]

One more suggestion : Show matching rate after auto review process.
I guess people are curious about how much white or black stone player played similar to AI.
So if after auto review there are scores for two players which is percentage of matched(blue position) through all played moves and that will be great.
Sorry for the poor English anyway.

[wonsiks]

More suggestion : Nickname fields for connected AI engines.
When config engines I want to give name to be shown for each engines.
That could make it simple and clear compared to show full command or weight file name.
Thanks.

[hgfedcba]

I recently started using your interface and I like it a lot. I would appreciate some changes though.

1. When I set "Max Annalyze Time" to 1 minute I would like the engine to switch off after time is reached, but switch on again after I make a move and there is a new position to analyze.
2. I am used to an interface where the arrow keys work differently (Variationtree was "left to right" not "top to bottom"). Navigation would be easier for me if you put in an option to switch the arrow key .

[84nobby]

I'd like to propose one feature if it is possible to introduce from ver1.0.
It is "Player Rating Function" which would be caliculated from the cumulative disastrous moves through the game with AI. Appreciate for taking it into your consideration. Thank you.

[Zacharias030]

intuitive way to 'clear the board' without 'starting a game against AI' and without restarting the app.

[Zacharias030]

'make main variation' button, so that the winrate graph is not dashed anymore after missclicks and exploring non-main variations first.

[Zacharias030]

a polished 'analyse whole game' mode that will find the important moves for one side / both sides and give variations on how to do better.
Meant as a way to quickly get feedback on a game without having to spend a lot of time.

[ghost]

Like ai-sensei.com, it would be nice to be able to list mistakes that lose a certain amount of points (or more); possibly filtered for one color. For example, see https://ai-sensei.com/game/ZuAQOdZvFjbS98TtZ3zomIyjBfi2/-LyxyGxcb9pSM6wL6NRm

[ParmuzinAlexander]

Show mistakes over stones
https://imgur.com/a/0BEcSJZ

[MacErlang]

Can one enable sound in Lizzie when a stone is placed on the board?

[lex312]

Support for DL files and not only SGF files.

-DL files (the new standard) are known from the CrazyStone DeepLearning Pro app (iOS and iPadOS) and are much better than SGF files.
-They has much more informations.

[lex312]

Show mistakes over stones
https://imgur.com/a/0BEcSJZ

That's a good idea, but should be improved:
Show only red and yellow dots.
More colors would be an overkill of informations.

For example:
If a move leads to -1 or -2 up to -3 stones, show yellow dot.
If a move leads to more than -3 stones, show red dot.

[lex312]

Better support for KataGo and nets.

[lex312]

Faster GUI when starting the programm and also faster GUI response when running analysis.

[lex312]

Better overview and cleanup of the GUI.

[lex312]

Make the black window in the right corner smaller, because I have never seen any informations there on my super big screen and make the window in the upper right corner bigger.

[w3333]

I know it's not really a Lizzie problem and probably not doable with current engines. But the only thing I wish it could do would be a tsumego solver.
And maybe better explanation about the wingraph (opened another issue for that): do the numbers include komi or not, why is "mean" different from the current graph position score ... small issues.

Maybe preset engine settings for LeelaZ and Kata. Is quite tedious for people not so savvy with command line and such.

And is the scoring-command "." gone? Can't get a score anymore on the finished board. That would be nice to return.

[w3333]

Faster GUI when starting the programm and also faster GUI response when running analysis.

@superbnet : is it possible you are using an NVidia GPU? I used to have one and complained to Giancarlo P. about Leela being so unresponsive. Turned out he knew about that issue and it is not an AI thing but a problem with NVidia cards in general. He explained it to me in more detail, but in short they only have one scheduler and when switching between computing mode and display mode the GUI becomes slow and laggy. AMD cards do not have that problem. Ever since I use only AMD and it never was a problem since, no matter which engine I use it always stays smooth.

[kslamph]

the open From online sgf auto refresh is. not. working, please make it do refresh.

[isty2e]

I'm mainly using LizGoban these days, and here are the features of LizGoban I like very much:

• Tabs - You can manage multiple boards with tabs and can easily go back and forth.
• Ease of setting rules, komi, and handicap stones (while I'd prefer dropdown menus for the UI side)
• You can set an alias for an engine, rather than showing it by the name of the network
• Showing the ownership map as numbers when a key is pressed
  And there are multiple more features, which makes LizGoban an attractive choice over Lizzie for me. I'd be happy if some of the features (especially tabs) can be imported to Lizzie.

[rtayek]

thanks for making lizzie.

i would like to have some of the top variations saved to the sgf file as variations (as opposed to comments). this would be useful when reviewing a complete game. maybe add the top n variations that have >=m playouts as variations in the sgf.

i found the hold options, but they end up as comments.

[84nobby]

Are you still working on Lizzie 1.0 release ?
Could you give us the information on the status or the roughly date to release ?