Room-temperature-controlled thermostat function with external sensors

[Nxtway]

Hello, that's my first topic in this project.
I will get a this month new heating system consisting of a gas boiler and heat pump (hybrid heating Buderus GBH212).
Unfortunately I have no cabling from my living room to the boiler room.
For this reason the RC310 will be installed at the boiler and act as outside-temperature-controlled.
However, I would like to improve the heating system to room-temperature-controlled.
Buderus offers two options to extend the RC310 with an external room temperature sensor:

1. RC100H - pretty nice but ruled out because I didn't lay an EMS cable from the living room to the boiler room
2. RC200RF + radio receiver RFM200 - possible but oversized and quite expensive

On the other hand, a HomeMatic HmIP-WTH-2 wireless room thermostat is already installed in my living room. The temperature and humidity is available e.g. in Node-Red.
I would like to extend the EMS-ESP32 to act as a virtual RC100H sensor (to avoid the burnt wording virtual thermostat) with the data from this external device. Is this approach understandable?

I see several actions:

• To become the external temperature and humidity data in EMS-ESP32 extending the analog sensors dashboard with two new types (temperature + humidity). Maybe allow negative GPIO addresses to identify them as external sensors
• Sending temperature and humidity in the RF100H format. The data format is described in thermostat.cpp:
  // 0x42B - for reading the roomtemperature from the RC100H remote thermostat (0x38, 0x39, ..)
  // e.g. "38 10 FF 00 03 2B 00 D1 08 2A 01"
  void Thermostat::process_RemoteTemp(std::shared_ptr telegram) { ... }
  // 0x47B - for reading humidity from the RC100H remote thermostat (0x38, 0x39, ..)
  // e.g. "38 10 FF 00 03 7B 08 24 00 4B"
  void Thermostat::process_RemoteHumidity(std::shared_ptr telegram) { ... }

Is this the right direction to extend EMS-ESP32 to act as a virtual RC100H sensor ?

[MichaelDvP]

We have already made something like that for the RC35 with RC20 roomthermostat. It need a bit more than sending the telegram. The master-thermostat checks version from the roomcontroller and checks if it is recognized to controller, otherwise it gives an error message about missing remote thermostat.
The logic for RC20 emulation is a writeable dummy entity in master thermostat, sending a valid value to remotetemp activates the emulation, and sends every minute the remotetemp to the master-thermostat. Sending a invalid value (-1) deactivate the logic.
I use this and read a zigbee aqara sensor and send the value to em-esp. Works good. If you like to use a analog sensor from ems-esp you'll need the schedule command with cmd: thermostat/remotetemp and value analogsensor/tempx.

For RC3xx the remote is not 100% clear. We know the RC100H sending from 0x38 to master (0x10) with the telegrams you mentioned for hc1. But not for hc2. It will be 0x39 sender, but same telegram or different? We have seen also a RF roomsensor sending from 0x40 with telegram 0x435 for hc1, there is also a RF-base at 0x50, not sending any telegram. Also unknown how hc2. is addressed.
Check if the rf-sensor works for you, just send a constant value every minute to the master and look if it accepts is.
system/send "40 10 FF 00 03 35 xx xx" with xxxx the temperature, maybe 00 FF for 25.5°C. Then make a log to see how the master reacts.

I'll check next week howto add a dummy RC100H to my testbuild.

[Nxtway]

Thanks a lot for the quick answer and the prospect to expand EMS-ESP software with a RC100H emulator!
I found the logic for the RC20 emulation in roomcontrol.cpp.

The installation and commissioning of my new heating system is not planned until end of this month.
Additional I have to bought a EMS-ESP32 gateway device. The new S3 generation should also be available end of this month in BBQkees online-shop. You see there is no need to hurry. I still have the whole winter time to do it.

I have already ordered a RC100H device through eBay classifieds for a few euros. I don't want to use this at all (no wiring to my living room). However, it might be helpful for the implementation of an emulator to capture the original communication between HM200, RC310 and RC100H ?

[Nxtway]

I got my new S3 gateway this week and use it with EMS-ESP Version 3.6.2-dev.2

Using the command thermostat/remotetemp results in the following error:
000+00:01:00.000 ERROR 179: [emsesp] Scheduled command thermostat/remotetemp failed with error: invalid command (Not Found)
000+00:14:00.000 ERROR 1379: [emsesp] Scheduled command thermostat/hc1/remotetemp failed with error: invalid command (Not Found)

Successful are the folowing commands:
000+00:02:00.000 281: [emsesp] Scheduled command thermostat/hc1/seltemp with data 24 successfully
000+00:01:00.000 180: [emsesp] Scheduled command thermostat/hc1/remoteseltemp with data 23 successfully
(the thermostat/hc1/remoteseltemp command is successfully executed but no data change is visible in the dashboard view)

The thermostat emulation code is inside the function
bool Thermostat::set_remotetemp(const char * value, const int8_t id) {
...
Roomctrl::set_remotetemp(hc->hc(), hc->remotetemp);
...
}

So I assume without a successful call of thermostat/remotetemp the emulation code isn't executed.
Should I upgrade my system to EMS-ESP Version 3.6.3 ?

[proddy]

thanks Michael. @Nxtway you can see which commands are available for your thermostat via http://ems-esp.local/api/thermostat/commands or downloading the full entity list from https://emsesp.github.io/docs/All-Devices/ and searching for remotetemp (which is a bit clumsy I know).

[Nxtway]

A big thank you for the test version. The remotetemp function is working, great !

I also tried the remotehum function. In the RC300 dashboard the 55 humidity value is shown as "room humidity from remote" with value 55 and unit °C insteed of %. Maybe you can change the unit ?
But in the new RC100H dashboard the 55 % room humidity from remote is displayed as "relativ air humidity" of 38% and "dew point temperature" of 2,0 °C. I'm a little bit confused about this conversion 55% --> 38%.

Now I have to investigate how to inject the temperature of my external sensor into emsesp. I seems that API interface is the way to execute commands from outside of emsesp.

[MichaelDvP]

Upps, try with new build, i've added dewtemp calculation and fixed field offsets/length in the telegram (hopefully).

seems that API interface is the way to execute commands from outside of emsesp.

You can use mqtt or api.

[Nxtway]

In the EMS-ESP-3_6_3-dev_2b-ESP32_S3.bin the %-unit and the dewtemp calculation and fixed field offsets/length is fixed.

But during the implementation of remote commands using via RESTful HTTP calls I found a stability issue in the 2b version.
The 2b version crashes and restart after 60 ... 120 seconds when I send commands remotely.
I use the commands remotetemp (after 5s), remoteseltemp (after 20s), seltemp (after 35s) and remotehum (after 50s) on each minute.
(seltemp is needed because of nothing happens when I send remoteseltemp). In the log all commands are accepted.
When I downgrade to version EMS-ESP-3_6_3-dev_2a-ESP32_S3.bin the issue not happens and the software run stable more than 8 hours. After upgrade again to version 2b the ems-esp crashes with the same behavior.

[MichaelDvP]

Yes, iv'e already found a buffer overflow and fixed it, you've downloaded to fast. Try again. Could you send a full log of abaou 3 minutes (attached as file).

[Nxtway]

Now I used the 2b version from today afternoon insteed of the 3b from yesterday evening 8pm.
The stability is improved but not stable. Crashes with longest lifetime 4..5minutes. 4 minutes log before crash attached
emsesp_2b_log.txt

[Nxtway]

Can the log itself be the cause?
The ems-esp 2b is up and running for more than a hour and when I take a look into the Systemlog - a crash happens.

[MichaelDvP]

I've seen these crashes in WebLog also sometimes, mainly when entering or leaving the page. Maybe a stack overflow, i've changed the log message intermediate storage from stack to heap, maybe it helps. I could not trigger a crash on my ems-esp, but it was also rarely before.

But i think the masterthermostat tries to get something from the remote and added telegram checks for this. It's now v3.6.3-dev.2c.
Because my system is ems (not ems+) i could not test for these telegrams.

[Nxtway]

I used the 2c version now for a couple of hours without any crashes, looks good !

Now I improve my logic sending commands. Starting point is a RC100H object in the dashboard with 3 items:
remotetemp, remotehum and dew point temperature
If I got for more than one hour no new temperature data from my sensor I send remotetemp = -1 --> Result: item remotetemp is removed immediately from RC100H object.
Same behavior for remotehum. But the calculated item dew point temperature is still available in the RC100H object. I don't know if that's ok or not, my feeling is that the dew point temperature should also be removed ?

The RC310 display at the boiler throws the error "Room temperature sensor defective". I think that's the correct responds for the behavior. Whats the result of your RC35 when you send a -1 for remotetemp of your virtual RC20?

I still have the option to connect a physical RC100H to the system and capture the real RC100H communication if needed.
(It's an option only for testing purpose, because I have no cabling to my living room where this kind of sensor should be placed).
Some sceenshots:

[MichaelDvP]

I don't know if that's ok or not, my feeling is that the dew point temperature should also be removed ?

Yes, i've updated to v3.6.3-dev.2d. Disable remotetemp will also remove humidity and dewpoint.
You only need to send the remotetemp if it changes, the periodic repeated telegram is done by ems-esp.

The RC310 display at the boiler throws the error "Room temperature sensor defective". I think that's the correct responds for the behavior. Whats the result of your RC35 when you send a -1 for remotetemp of your virtual RC20?

The RC35 have a setting what device controls the circuit, the RC35 or the remote RC20. Not sending the value results in error message A2x 816: (x=hc, no communication with remote RC20). Setting the control to RC35 removes the error. I don't know if there is such a setting for the RC300, havn't found something like that in Norberts telegram list.

[Nxtway]

The RC35 have a setting what device controls the circuit, the RC35 or the remote RC20. Not sending the value results in error message A2x 816: (x=hc, no communication with remote RC20). Setting the control to RC35 removes the error. I don't know if there is such a setting for the RC300, havn't found something like that in Norberts telegram list.

Same in RC310, if choosing room temperature controlled then you have a list with remote units where the data is coming from RC310 itself, RC200, RC100, RC100H and TC100.

I changed the logic sending external commands a little bit (screenshot above updated). Now I avoid sending additional commands if temperature is invalid (-1). Again, thanks a lot for the implementation. I'm happy with v3.6.3-dev.2d.

[MichaelDvP]

Same in RC310, if choosing room temperature controlled then you have a list with remote units where the data is coming from RC310 itself, RC200, RC100, RC100H and TC100.

Would be nice to have this in ems-esp. Please log the telegrams while changing the control to each possible value. If you use telnet you can use watch 10 instead of log all to reduce telegram count.
We are looking for

• set control to RC200
• thermostat(0x10)-B->All(0x00) ?/name(0xXXX) data: 01 (offset y)
• set control to RC100
• thermostat(0x10)-B->All(0x00) ?/name(0xXXX) data: 02 (offset y)
• etc.

We need to know the telegram XXX, offset y and data for each option.

[Nxtway]

It's a pleasure for me.
In Heating circuit 1 coming from selected RC100H and select then -> RC310 -> RC200 -> RC100 -> RC100H -> TC100 -> RC100H
ems-esp_select_remotes.txt

[MichaelDvP]

Thanks, it is 0x0291 offset3. I've added it to my testbuild.
Full telegram is 01 00 00 03 FF 00, we know now offset 3 for control, offset 5 is heatpumpmode: heating/cooling/heating+cooling, other offsets unknown. It's hc specific: 0x292 for hc2, etc.

[Nxtway]

Cool, new feature ?

Also new command "thermostat/control" to set the type of control device ?
If, then use the list entry number 1..5 or string "RC100H" as command value ?

[MichaelDvP]

Yes, thermostat/control or thermostat/hc1/control, value can be index 0..4 or names RC100H, same scheme in api/mqtt/telnet

[Nxtway]

Question: If a remote thermostat is in the heating system how the (room) temperature setpoint is configured ?
I assume that in this case of "control mode = room" the room setpoint comes from the remote thermostat, right ?

In #590 this is shown in a screenshot:

In this screenshot "hc1 temporary set temperature from remote" has a valid setpoint with 22°C

In my case with a virtual RC100H I can't edit this value in the ENS-esp dashboard and also sending the command remoteseltemp has no effect. Maybe the data in the RC310 are overwritten with the virtual RC100H data ?
void Thermostat::process_RC300Set(std::shared_ptr telegram) {
...
has_update(telegram, hc->remoteseltemp, 17); // see #590
...
}
But there is currently no command to set the source data in the virtual RC100H ?

[MichaelDvP]

The remote normally changes the settings of the main thermostat, this works also from ems-esp, so you can set seltemp, ecotemp, manualtemp, etc. Don't know why the remoteseltemp is not working, maybe the thermostat only accepts if the remote is the sender of this message. Can you check in terminal:

read 10 2B9
watch 2B9
call thermostat remoteseltemp 23
read 10 2B9

[Nxtway]

maybe the thermostat only accepts if the remote is the sender of this message.

Yes I think so. The remoteseltemp maybe works in the same manner as remotetemp and remotehum

If the control algorithm in the RC310 ignore that remoteseltemp is fixed to 0 and works with seltemp, ecotemp and manualtemp it doesn't matter. When the control algorithm needs remoteseltemp then a void Roomctrl::set_remoteseltemp() method is needed ?
By the way in telnet "call thermostat remoteseltemp 23" results in "Command not found" and I executed this command in the ems-esp scheduler.
Sorry for the work I produce, best regards Martin

[MichaelDvP]

Oh you are in user session, type su and the password from web->security->security-settings, then you can use the call command in telnet
I think we should ignore the zero in remoteseltemp and use seltemp in the emulation. I don't have enough logs to emulate a telegram. Does it change on mode change? Do we need to send periodical? etc. I think it is similar to tempautotemp: if zero the normal thermostat value is used, nonzero changes temperature until next auto-switchpoint. But is it active in manual-mode?

[Nxtway]

The solution is to use manualtemp command with RC310 manual mode:

[MichaelDvP]

Nice picture :-)
In manual mode you can use manualtemp, but seltemp should always work, it's not a ems-command, the ems-esp checks mode and uses the right ems-command to change current setting, e.g. in manualmode seltemp affects manualtemp, in ecomode ecotemp, in automode the tempautotemp.
If you don't send the humidity, do you get a error message from RC310?

[Nxtway]

If you don't send the humidity, do you get a error message from RC310?

I disabled sending the remodehum API command in node-red. After this I restarted the ems-esp. The virtual RC100H shows only the remotetemp and the RC310 recognize no error since 2h after restart of ems-esp. Everything is fine :-)

[MichaelDvP]

Ok, good, so we don't need to add an extra RC100 at 0x18.. for users who don't have/need humidity.

[airhead1234]

@Nxtway I really like your ideas on a virtual RC100H sensor. In fact similar thoughts brought me to EMS-ESP in the first place. Would you mind describing your implementation in more detail? Thanks!

[proddy]

and I can then document this in the Wiki to share with others. good stuff.

[MichaelDvP]

Nxtway has made a nice explaining picture here: #1287 (reply in thread)

For the wiki it does not fit to any of existing chapters.

• https://emsesp.github.io/docs/FAQ/ As simulating a remote thermostat
• or https://emsesp.github.io/docs/tips-and-tricks/
• or https://emsesp.github.io/docs/Configuring/

[Nxtway]

@airhead1234 Starting from the goal I want to achieve here
I explained my favorite solution shortly here
Sending the EMS-ESP API commands (in my case with node-red) are displayed here
Please can you give me a hind what part has to be explained in more detail ?

The RC310 control algorithm improved with the virtual RC100H remote thermostat works very well.
All radiators in my reference room (living room) are complete open and the RC310 controls the temperature by adjusting the target flow temperature.

[airhead1234]

Thank you, @Nxtway. Maybe this is simpler than I thought, but as I still do not get it working it probably isn't ;-).

I already fail at the onset and cannot enable the virtual RC100H sensor. To my understanding I need to execute the command thermostat/remotetemp which does not seem to exist in my system. I am on build 3.6.3-dev.5.

Here is the list of thermostat commands available to me as retried via http://ems-esp.local/api/thermostat/commands. No remotetemp to be seen anywhere.

{
    "building": "Gebäudetyp",
    "comforttemp": "Komforttemperatur",
    "commands": "Liste aller Kommandos",
    "controlmode": "Kontrollmodus",
    "cooling": "Kühlen",
    "damping": "Dämpfung der Außentemperatur",
    "datetime": "Datum/Zeit",
    "delayboiler": "Verzögerungs-Option",
    "designtemp": "Auslegungstemperatur",
    "dewoffset": "Taupunkt Differenz",
    "ecotemp": "eco Temperatur",
    "electricfactor": "Energiefaktor elektrisch",
    "energycostratio": "Energie/Kosten-Verhältnis",
    "entities": "Liste aller Entitäten",
    "fastheatup": "schnelles Aufheizen",
    "fossilefactor": "Energiefaktor Fossil",
    "heatingtype": "Heizungstyp",
    "hpminflowtemp": "WP minimale Vorlauftemperatur",
    "hpmode": "WP Modus",
    "hpoperatingmode": "Wärmepumpe Betriebsmodus",
    "hybridstrategy": "Hybrid Strategie",
    "info": "Liste aller Werte",
    "intoffset": "Korrektur interner Temperatur",
    "manualtemp": "manuelle Temperatur",
    "maxflowtemp": "max Vorlauftemperatur",
    "minexttemp": "min. Aussentemperatur",
    "minflowtemp": "min Vorlauftemperatur",
    "mode": "Modus",
    "nofrostmode": "Frostschutz Modus",
    "nofrosttemp": "Frostschutztemperatur",
    "noreducetemp": "Durchheizen unter",
    "offsettemp": "Temperaturanhebung",
    "program": "Programm",
    "pvenableww": "aktiviere Anhebung WW",
    "pvlowercool": "Kühlabsenkung mit PV",
    "pvraiseheat": "Anhebung Heizen mit PV",
    "reducemode": "Absenkmodus",
    "reducetemp": "Absenkmodus unter",
    "remoteseltemp": "temporäre Solltemperatur Remote",
    "roominflfactor": "Raumeinflussfaktor",
    "roominfluence": "Raumeinfluss",
    "roomtempdiff": "Raumtemperatur Differenz",
    "seltemp": "Sollwert Raumtemperatur",
    "summersetmode": "Einstellung Sommerbetrieb",
    "summertemp": "Sommertemperatur",
    "switchonoptimization": "Einschaltoptimierung",
    "switchovertemp": "Außentemperatur für Umschaltung",
    "tempautotemp": "temporäre Solltemperatur",
    "tempdiffboiler": "Temperaturdifferenz-Option",
    "wwcharge": "WW Laden",
    "wwchargeduration": "WW Ladedauer",
    "wwcircmode": "WW Zirkulationspumpen-Modus",
    "wwdisinfectday": "WW Desinfektionstag",
    "wwdisinfecting": "WW Desinfizieren",
    "wwdisinfecttime": "WW Desinfektionsdauer",
    "wwmode": "WW Modus",
    "wwprio": "WW-Vorrang",
    "wwsettemp": "WW Solltemperatur",
    "wwsettemplow": "WW untere Solltemperatur"
}

[Nxtway]

I think you couldn't see remotetemp because the virtual RC100H isn't activated in your system.

MichaelDvP wrote:

The logic for RC20 emulation is a writeable dummy entity in master thermostat, sending a valid value to remotetemp activates the emulation, and sends every minute the remotetemp to the master-thermostat. Sending a invalid value (-1) deactivate the logic.
I use this and read a zigbee aqara sensor and send the value to em-esp. Works good. If you like to use a analog sensor from ems-esp you'll need the schedule command with cmd: thermostat/remotetemp and value analogsensor/tempx.

Instead of an analog sensor or an external temperature sensor you can start more easier with a hard coded temperature like 23°C and the in ems-esp integrated command scheduler:

Now every minute the ems-esp sends remotetemp on the EMS bus and after 2 or 3 minutes you should see the RC100H in the dashboard. Does this work ?

[airhead1234]

Thank you. I can see remotetemp now.

My mistake was using the wrong software version (https://github.com/emsesp/EMS-ESP32/releases/download/latest/EMS-ESP-3_6_3-dev_5-ESP32_S3.bin) instead of MichaelDvP's test version (https://github.com/MichaelDvP/EMS-ESP32/releases/download/test/EMS-ESP-3_6_3-dev_5b-ESP32_S3.bin).

I can now activate the virtual RC100H and also update temperature and humidity values.

Directly after the initial activation I do get an error, however.

2023-11-04 11:25:20.000 I 16: [command] Calling command 'thermostat/remotetemp' (Raumtemperatur Remote) with value 23
2023-11-04 11:25:39.463 I 17: [emsesp] Recognized new thermostat with deviceID 0x38
2023-11-04 11:25:47.996 E 18: [telegram] Last Tx Read operation failed after 3 retries. Ignoring request: 0B B8 FF 00 19 01 73

Is this related to my RC310 telling me that there is now a remote sensor which is not in use or something else?

[MichaelDvP]

Oh, here ems-esp tries to get the internal sensor calibration from the emulated remote RC100H, but get's no reply. This do not harm.

[airhead1234]

Ok, great and thank you both, @MichaelDvP and @Nxtway for implementing and explaining this cool feature. I think this is super handy.

I can now set remote temperature and humidity with remotetemp and remotehum. Sending "-1" removes the entities as expected. However, even after removing both temperature and humidity the dew point entity remains and the RC100H device is not removed from the devices overview page.

[influenist]

Happy to come across this discussion, yet it would be good to have clear documentation on it. I reproduced the steps combined from this discussion:

• Created the virtual interface RH100C via Settings > scheduler in EMS-ESP
• In Devices > RC300/RC310 ... > changed option "hc1 control device" from RC300 to RH100C
• In Devices > RC300/RC310 ... > changed option "hc1 control mode" from "outside basepoint" to "room" (this changes the setting to weather compensated) @proddy is this expected?
• Setup a HA automation to set the current room temp:

alias: Set Remote Temp Buderus from NEST Hallway
trigger:
  - platform: time_pattern
    minutes: /1
action:
  - service: rest_command.set_ems_esp
    data:
      device: thermostat
      name: remotetemp
      value: "{{ states('sensor.hall_thermostat_temperature') }}"
  - service: rest_command.set_ems_esp
    data:
      device: thermostat
      name: remotehum
      value: "{{ states('sensor.hall_thermostat_humidity') }}"
  - service: rest_command.set_ems_esp
    data:
      device: thermostat
      name: seltemp
      value: "{{ state_attr('climate.hall_thermostat', 'temperature') }}"
  - service: rest_command.set_ems_esp
    data:
      device: thermostat
      name: manualtemp
      value: "{{ state_attr('climate.hall_thermostat', 'temperature') }}"

• Removed "remoteseltemp" as it does not update the value in EMS ESP.

For anyone interested this is the configuration.yaml snippet for the api connection:

rest_command:
  set_ems_esp:
    url: "http://xxx/api/{{device}}/{{name}}"
    method: POST
    headers:
      authorization: "Bearer !private"
    content_type: "application/json"
    payload: '{"value":"{{value}}"}'

All seems to work, except I'm unable to override the "remoteseltemp", which is fixed to 23c? Is this expected or how can I drop this?

[tabsmann]

Did you two ever get it working?
I face the same problem: RC100H not showing up at all. I'm on version 3.6.5
Thanks.

[MichaelDvP]

See #1691, seems some newer heatpumps acts different and needs data more often.
Try if this build is better: https://github.com/MichaelDvP/EMS-ESP32/releases/tag/latest
(with breaking changes in 3.7. dev for dhw entities)

[tabsmann]

@MichaelDvP
Thanks a lot. With 3.7.0-dev.3 the RC100H showed up immediately.

As a downside in homeassistant (mqtt discovery) the former thermostat was now replaced with the RC100H. In the EMS-ESP Dashboard I still see both thermostats.
Is this the intended behavior?

Edit: After checking closer it was not really replaced, but kind of merged, but several settings of the Main Thermostat are not available.

[MichaelDvP]

If you mean the ww-entities, see https://github.com/MichaelDvP/EMS-ESP32/blob/dev/CHANGELOG_LATEST.md
they are now mapped to dhw for all devices: thermostat/wwseltemp becomes thermostat/dhw/seltemp

[tabsmann]

You are right. It was DHW entities.
Deleting the devices and having them re-added through mqtt discovery cleaned everything up.

Thanks for your help.

[kl-d]

Hi all,

this is great and I've been trying it out as well.

TL;DR:

Something doesn't work with room control mode (flow temp goes to 75° and stays there). But it works with "weather compensated" control mode and taking the room temperature into account.

Details:

I have a Logamax GB172-20 and RC310. And I tried EMS-ESP 3.6.3 and 3.6.4.

I see the virtual RC100H and I see correct room temperatures (also in the display of the RC310).

I've switched to the RC100H and to manual mode with setting the manual temperature. I also see the set temperature on the display of the RC310.

When I switch to "weather compensated" and add room influence, the flow temperature controls the room temperature just fine with a fully open valve on the radiator. I also see curroominfl changing.

But when I switch to room control mode, the calculated (and measured) flowtemp goes to the max (75°) and stays there.

Since its working and controlling with "weather compensated" (including the room temperature), I think that at least the basics should be setup correctly.

I tried all kinds of things, temperature settings, auto/manual and going through the menu of the RC310, but when I switch to room control mode, the flow temperature always goes to 75° and stays there.

Maybe there is something missing from the RC310's point of view? I also added humidity in case the RC310 wants it, but no difference.

I see these messages in the log:

000+00:23:01.817 E 77: [telegram] Last Tx Read operation failed after 3 retries. Ignoring request: 0B B8 FF 00 19 01 73
000+00:23:07.169 I 78: [command] Calling command 'thermostat/remotetemp' (Raumtemperatur Remote) with value 22.8 and id 1 on device 0x10
000+00:23:09.907 E 79: [telegram] Last Tx Read operation failed after 3 retries. Ignoring request: 0B B8 FF 00 19 09 6A

The first one (0B B8 FF 00 19 01 73) was mentioned above, but not the second one (0B B8 FF 00 19 09 6A).

Did anyone see someting like that? Any thoughts?

Thanks!

[kl-d]

Sure, of course I tried setting the set temperature way below the current temperature and also varying the measured temperature, nothing made a difference.

And "weather compensated" with room influence works quite well and of course it makes sense to take the outside temperature into account.

I think it's mostly curiosity about why it isn't working and wanting to try the mode. :-)

Just having the heating curve and an offset based on the set/measured temperature difference is basically a P-controller. It was pretty much spot on yesterday while things were turned on in the reference room.

But this morning, before switching things on, the temperature was off by 0.5°. Not a big deal of course, but having a bit of an I-part in the controller would be nice. :-)

I think I'll just activate the thermostat again in the reference room. As I said, I was just playing around with it. :-)

[kl-d]

And maybe another quick question. I find it difficult to see if some value is a direct value/command from/for the heater components or if it's something from ems-esp. And in general more info about what the values/commands actually mean/do. Like this feature for example.

Is this documented somwhere? Or is looking into the code and github the way to go? 🙂 Documenting every detail of these things would be quite an effort.

[proddy]

Hi @kl-d - can you give an example use case for identifying whether a value is direct from EMS or something generated by the EMS-ESP app so I understand what you mean. And any ideas from the top of your head how to visualize this? We auto-generate a large XLS file (seen here) but it doesn't describe the direction of traffic.

The topic of documenting what the 400+ entities mean and do is tedious work and complex. When we started we didn't know and just reverse-engineered what we could find, and we're still getting it wrong. There is no official documentation on EMS or from the vendors that use it (Buderus, Nefit, Worcester, Junkers etc) and their product manuals are very cryptic. So we kind of adopted the principle of 'if you're not looking for it, you probably don't need it'. We did ask on several attempts for the community (there must be thousands of users out there now) to collaborate and build up the knowledge-base but that's also hard. Everyone is waiting for someone to take the first step.

[MichaelDvP]

I find it difficult to see if some value is a direct value/command from/for the heater components or if it's something from ems-esp

In general ems-esp entities are on devices /system, /temperaturesensor, /analogsensor, /schedule, /shower. The ems-devices like /boiler, /thermostat, etc. have ems-entities.
There are only a very few special entities:

• /heatingactive and /tapactive are artificial calcualted from some boiler-ems values to make shower detection possible
• boiler/forceheatingoff sends a ems command every minute to stop the boiler
• boiler/nrgtotal, nrgheat, nrgww, nompower are emsesp calculations for energy measurement on gas boilers
• thermostat/hcx/remotetemp is the experimental emulation of a remote thermostat, not fully working on all systems.
  I think this are all.

[kl-d]

@proddy: I did see the large list. I think it would be helpful to just have a column to see if it's a direct value/command for the heater or if it's something ems-esp internal. But maybe it's not important for most people.

Or maybe, instead of having an additional column, it would be helpful to just describe the special ones at the top of the list? especially since there aren't that many.

I think it would help when setting or interpreting values.

When I read your comment and started thinking about what values irritated me a bit, they are pretty much all included in the list from @MichaelDvP (thanks!).

nrg*: I got the EMS-Bus-Gateway a few days after I got the new heater and started looking at the values and assumed that the nrg* ones were something from the heater. I was a bit irritated when the values didn't even closely match the readings from the gas meter, which I compared to the gas meter value from the beginning, and not when I got the esp. By coincident, the values were off by pretty close to a factor of 10 🙂. But then later, I assumed it was something internal, especially after noticing that the values started at 0 when I started the gateway the first time. 🙂 And then I also found a discussion about it.

nompower: I saw this one just a while ago and didn't mess with it because I was concerned that this might change some setting in the heater, even though I assumed it was to help with energy calculations. It is set to 30, but my heater is more around 20.

roominfluence, roominflfactor: These I compared to the menu on the RC310, roominfluence is, well, the room influence in the menu, but I didn't see what roominflfactor does. It seems to have no effect, at least not an immediate one and I didn't see something like that in the menu. Or maybe its for a specific mode.

And next to remotetemp, there is also seltemp that was described in this thread as beeing a general temperature that is mapped onto the currently relevant selected temperature, right?

For the directly mapped values, I can look into the manual of the heater to see what they mean. Maybe it's not even the same for all possible heaters.

But in general, I didn't mean to criticize the project. I am very happy that this project exists and I think its amazing! 🙂 My previous heater was a 40 year old oil heater where I attached an rc servo to a poti knob to remote control the design temperature. 🙂 And I can imagine that it is also a bit exhausting at times to do a project like this where some are just complaining about something they got for absolutely free.

[MichaelDvP]

By coincident, the values were off by pretty close to a factor of 10 🙂

Oh, good, you have calculated that gas has around 10 kWh/qm, that's right.

[kl-d]

That would have been nice, but no, it looked like around 1 kWh/qm comparing the kWh from nrgtotal to the total gas usage. Which had me confused for a second. 🙂 Comparing the value from nrgtotal directly to the total gas usage (with factors from the gas supplier) since starting to use the heater, since I thought it was a value from the heater. But I didn't have ems-esp from the beginning. Maybe I should have said "factor of 0.1".

[kl-d]

Then, after two days, comparing the correct timeframes, I had about 112 kWh/day and 7.5 qm/day. Which would be plausible, I guess, when having nompower at the default 30 kW with a 20 kW heater.

[kl-d]

I compared it again just now. About 41 days.

96.13 kWh/day and 6.08 qm/day on average with nompower 30, which I also just now changed to 20.

Looks good, I'd say. 🙂

[AzonInc]

Does the remote temp emulation also work when using a RC200/CW100 Thermostat?
Whenever I set a different hc1 control device it switches to RC310

I'd like to use a remote temperature from nodered instead of the bosch wall thermostat

[MichaelDvP]

See #1551, in my testbuild there is a RC200 option for RC3x0 master. Some more testers are welcome. If it all works i will do a PR to the official test-build.

[AzonInc]

I currently have a Bosch CW100 Wall Thermostat. Does it also apply to this one?
Which steps do I have to do?
I changed the control mode to room and setup a schedule to send the remote temperature to test it.
However I still can't change the control device - even with your test build.

I only have one heating circuit:

[MichaelDvP]

This looks like you have only a CW100 as main thermostat, remote is only for a RC3x0 master thermostat to use weather control with roominfluence. The single hc thermostats does not have the option for remote.

[AzonInc]

Ahh okay, such a pity.
But thanks anyway :)

[airhead1234]

@MichaelDvP: Above you write "remote is only for a RC3x0 master thermostat to use weather control with roominfluence." My RC310 is on room control because I do not have an outdoor sensor and indeed it seems like the temperature of my virtual RC100H does not influence the heating of my system at all.

Is there any way to make it work even if there is not outdoor sensor and while the RC310 is in room control? Or even better would it be possible to create a virtual outdoor sensor? Thanks!

[jurajbelobrad]

Hello.
I have tested the solution on EMS-ESP Version 3.6.5-dev.14.
Buderus GB192, two floor house, RC310 in 1st floor (hc1), temperature from DS18B20 through Loxone in 2nd floor sended every 120 seconds (hc2), two mixers.
I am getting error code A11 (3092) Remote temperature sensor defekt - reported every minute.
Now even the temperature has been reached (13,5C; set to 12C), the heating is still active and the mixer is fully open.

log(3).txt

[MichaelDvP]

The last fixes for remote are only in my test-build. But as mentioned in #1611 there is still somthing wrong with RC300 remotes. Don't know what. I only have RC35 and remote RC20 works fine with this, something is different with RC300 but i can not test and have no idea hat.

[airhead1234]

I have posted logs of my real RC200 interacting with my RC310 here.

To me it seems as if my real RC200 behaves a little different to the virtual one. E.g. the temperature of the RC200 is reported as hc1/currtemp on the RC310 with the real RC200 while it is stated as hc1/remotetemp with the virtual one. When using the real RC200 hc1/remotetemp is not even set.

I will be happy to provided more data of my real RC200 if this helps.

[proddy]

See wiki article on this: https://emsesp.github.io/docs/Special-Functions/#remote-thermostats

[mattreim]

Please integrate the remote thermostats into the start routine, as they always have to be recreated after a restart.

[MichaelDvP]

Then we have to store every new temperature value to flash. A micocontroller flash is not designed for fast changing values, we will burn the flash cell withing a few month. If you like to activate, try with scheduler on startup and a fixed value, typical for your home.

[mattreim]

Thank you very much for the description. It could also be added to "Special Functions" on the main page.

[mattreim]

Thank you, i hope it's ok.

[mattreim]

Could the schedule function start a little later to avoid this error?

2024-04-25 20:49:32.000 ERROR 8: [emsesp] Scheduled command thermostat/hc1/remotetemp failed with error: unknown device (Error)
2024-04-25 20:49:32.000 ERROR 9: [emsesp] Scheduled command thermostat/hc1/remotehum failed with error: unknown device (Error)

[MichaelDvP]

This is expected.The startup commands are repeated up to 3 times (every minute) if not successful. We can't set a fixed delay, it depends on boiler/controller state. Also KM200 module does not like if ems-esp talks earlier than KM200 on the bus.

[proddy]

we could downgrade the log level to a warning

[mattreim]

It's OK. The main thing is that it works.

[mheyse]

Hi, I also have some questions regarding the remote thermostats. Disclaimer: I'm testing the Modbus interface I'm currently implementing and I'm setting the values via Modbus so maybe something is different to using MQTT directly - but the MQTT topics reflect the values that I set via Modbus in all instances. 1) Are there any timing constraints? If I follow the Wiki and set thermostat/hcx/control to RC100H, followed immediately by setting remotetemp and remotehum it doesn't work and in the log I see 000+00:00:28.844 INFO 16: [command] Calling command 'thermostat/remotetemp' (room temperature from remote) with value 22.00 and id 1 on device 0x10 000+00:00:28.844 ERROR 17: [command] Command 'remotetemp/22.00' failed with error code 3 If I wait a bit between setting control and remoteXXX it works. How can this be done reliably, what is a safe time to wait? Or, are there any delays/success checks required in the Modbus code? In general this is not an issue at all, but for the "startup procedure" (creating the virtual remote thermostat) the Wiki says the remote temperature/humidity have to be set within a minute, and I can't guarantee that in my setup so I have to send the values right away after setting the control device. For the following tests I just wait 1 second between all commands. 2) If I enable and later disable the device (by setting both the remote temperature and humidity to -1 and control to RC310) the RC100H device still has the "hcx dew point temperature" entity (in the devices overview web page) 3) If I re-enable the RC100H following above procedure the device overview page suddenly sows a "RC200/CW100" instead of the expected RC100H, and it does not show a humidity entity (the dew point temperature entity still exists though). But the thermostat_data_hc1 MQTT topic correctly says "control": "RC100H" and also lists the remotetemp and remotehum I set. The log also looks good: 000+00:56:10.002 INFO 69: [command] Calling command 'thermostat/control' (control device) with value 3 and id 1 on device 0x10 000+00:56:11.212 INFO 70: [command] Calling command 'thermostat/remotetemp' (room temperature from remote) with value 22.00 and id 1 on device 0x10 000+00:56:12.222 INFO 71: [command] Calling command 'thermostat/remotehum' (room humidity from remote) with value 50.00 and id 1 on device 0x10 4) If I repeat the initialization procedure a second time, the remotehum entity is added to the RC200/CW100 and after a while it is also correctly renamed to RC100H in the device overview. Is all of this expected? Thanks and best regards Michael

…

Am 04.04.2024 um 19:06 schrieb Proddy ***@***.***>: See wiki article on this: https://emsesp.github.io/docs/Special-Functions/#remote-thermostats — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#1287 (reply in thread)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABJD5GVO5T4E55WT6YEGEX3Y3WCBNAVCNFSM6AAAAAA4RHS3EOVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43SRDJONRXK43TNFXW4Q3PNVWWK3TUHM4TAMJSGQ3TQ>. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.

[MichaelDvP]

There is no fixed delay. ems-esp just have to wait for the busmaster to poll, then it sends the control change, queue a second message and on next poll read the control state. With the changed control state the right emulation can be activated on call of remotetemp.
Set control to RC100H, read control until it is set to RC100H, then start emulation with remotetemp.
I can change to set the control state in ems-esp on sending in advance, so the emulation is started with the right emulation if the command is successful.

[mheyse]

OK, thanks. The procedure "set remote control - read until value is RC100H - then send teperature" is too complex for my KNX logic module.Is there any drawback in just setting the control periodically to RC100H, like every 10 minutes, and just ignore remotetemp errors? Then the system will eventually be in a correct state.Best regardsMichaelAm 29.04.2024 12:40 schrieb MichaelDvP ***@***.***>: There is no fixed delay. ems-esp just have to wait for the busmaster to poll, then it sends the control change, queue a second message and on next poll read the control state. With the changed control state the right emulation can be activated on call of remotetemp. Set control to RC100H, read control until it is set to RC100H, then start emulation with remotetemp. I can change to set the control state in ems-esp on sending in advance, so the emulation is started with the right emulation if the command is successful. —Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[MichaelDvP]

You can use the dev, i've changed to setting control on the command, so you can immediately send the remotetemp command.

[mheyse]

This works, thanks.

…

Am 30.04.2024 um 09:06 schrieb MichaelDvP ***@***.***>: You can use the dev, i've changed to setting control on the command, so you can immediately send the remotetemp command. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#1287 (reply in thread)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/ABJD5GTXV2BDVMPVDQWIK4TY747GBAVCNFSM6AAAAAA4RHS3EOVHI2DSMVQWIX3LMV43SRDJONRXK43TNFXW4Q3PNVWWK3TUHM4TENZRGMYTE>. You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.

[Bingo2023]

I canot get the virtual remote to work.
My System: BC400 with RC220 remote next to HP.

I tried following commands send with MQTT via Nodered.

I played around with control message (RC100H, RC220, RC220H) but no success.
Any idea?

[proddy]

turn logging on and see if the commands are coming through and being executed in EMS-ESP

[Bingo2023]

007+10:54:52.357 E 41: [mqtt] MQTT command failed with error callback function failed (Invalid)
007+10:54:53.585 E 42: [command] Command 'remotehum/63.2' failed with error 'invalid'
007+10:54:53.585 E 43: [mqtt] MQTT command failed with error callback function failed (Invalid)
007+10:55:21.131 E 44: [command] Command 'remotetemp/29' failed with error 'invalid'
007+10:55:21.131 E 45: [mqtt] MQTT command failed with error callback function failed (Invalid)
007+10:55:21.950 E 46: [command] Command 'remotehum/63' failed with error 'invalid'
007+10:55:21.950 E 47: [mqtt] MQTT command failed with error callback function failed (Invalid)
007+10:55:35.981 E 48: [command] Command 'remotetemp/23.9' failed with error 'error'
007+10:55:35.981 E 49: [mqtt] MQTT command failed with error callback function failed (Error)
007+10:55:37.003 E 50: [command] Command 'remotehum/63' failed with error 'error'
007+10:55:37.003 E 51: [mqtt] MQTT command failed with error callback function failed (Error)

[proddy]

good, now I can try and reproduce and find the right syntax

[proddy]

does it work on the command line, via Telnet?

call thermostat remotetemp 20