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October 6, 2016

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Nick Ruest edited this page Oct 6, 2016 · 7 revisions

Time/Place

This meeting is a hybrid teleconference and IRC chat. Anyone is welcome to join. Here is the info:

Attendees

  • Nick Ruest
  • Simone Sacchi
  • Jared Whiklo ⭐
  • Danny Lamb
  • Shawn Averkamp
  • Marcus Barnes
  • Kim Pham
  • Christina Harlow
  • Esme Cowles

Agenda

  1. Welcome new Committer, Christina Harlow
  2. pcdm:FileSets
  • Determine requirement
  • Determine definition
  • Review open PR?
  1. Start of Examples / Profiles generation
  2. Wiki updates (minor docs procedure comment)
  3. ...
  4. Feel free to add additional agenda items

Minutes

  1. Welcome New Committer

    Welcome Christina...oh she's not here. She's at a session at HydraConnect, but will join soon.

  2. pcdm:FileSets

    Different definitions on what a FileSet is.

    Problem is what type of metadata you get, and I don't see why you can only have technical metadata and not descriptive.

    It depends on what you mean by technical metadata, if you are talking about object type. I would consider those still technical metadata and could be added at the FileSet level and still be at the Object or FileSet type.

    I'm against restrictions in general, if you want to put it on the FileSet. If its coming back to Object, then we need to review Object and that the structure of Object is that is aggregates aggregates.

    Do we really need FileSets if we have pcdm:Objects?

    The only time I would like to use a FileSet in lieu of an Object because most of the time I don't have nested FileSets. This is at odds with the HydraWorks use of a FileSet. So in Islandora we don't need FileSets generally.

    I'm leaning towards not have FileSets or use FileSets in a very specific ways. So only FileSets can have Files and all Objects have FileSets. Otherwise we can get confusing, I like the way to aggregate derivatives. If we say that FileSets are optional then the fall out is that it becomes diluted and I'm not sure it works.

    I want the core of PCDM to be one thing and leave the extensions to add additional constructs on top. If you can make it so all the Hydra's to understand each other and all the Islandora's to understand each other. That is a large step forward.

    The goal of PCDM was interoperability and this doesn't mean we will be interoperable.

    PCDM core is a fall-back, it is the domain model that we are building on-top of it. We both had constructs in Fedora 3 that went in different directions but the base was still Fedora.

    Everyone agrees it is an aggregation of files, divided on the type of metadata to be placed on it.

    Do we have other use cases for FileSets other than derivatives.

    Stefano had a use case for having stand-alone FileSets.

    FileSets and complex objects, thinking about an HTML page that has an image and CSS. In PCDM there is not a nice way to model this sort of object. There are more of these resources appearing. This doesn't require multiple objects, but have a bunch of files.

    The reason why the distinction is to separate the intellectual entity from the content.

    So what do we actual think a FileSet it, do we want to make it actionable. Do we have to aggregate these cases and find a definition. Or pull them and get a shared understanding. What can we do to capture and move this forward.

    Use cases would be good. Perhaps collect for a month or two, then come around to a common understanding.

    I like an operation definition where we could add examples.

    Do we want to get the existing FileSets through as optional, or hold off while we do the use case collecting.

    All the confusion around the FileSets is about the use of them, this is more descriptive and should be understood. But can therefore be added after.

    Brings all these assumptions to the surface, to help clarify the proper use of FileSets.

    Anyone that thinks we should move forward on it. Committer workflow is to have at least one 👍 and currently there isn't one, and there is possibly one 👎 .

    The FileSets Working Group should be consulted before we move forward. There is no consensus on the predicates. Needs some more discussion, and consensus. Also the community as a whole could join this group to help agree on what the FileSets are.

    Implications of what it does to Objects, the various assertions due to the FileSets.

    The PR is take the PCDM 1.0 as baseline, then if you have a complex structure (multiple copies of one image) you can also use the FileSet to layer on top of it. You can work with them as a whole, delete all at once.

    The implementation in Hydra uses these instead of Page objects, but now the idea is leaning toward using FileSets as the minimal grouping if required.

    Not as concerned with making the structure the same, but using the same blocks. That would make interoperability much easier.

    If the structure could be the same that would be nice, but not a requirement.

    FileSets could be a direct container that generates the hasFile predicate. This give Hydra some of what it needs, but makes them optional if you desire.

    Not mix LDP and PCDM, but there is what is in the RDFS and what is in the actual implementation.

    There are various different things interacting, but when you have modeling concerns, performance concerns, etc these can help inform each other.

    Actions:

    • Collect use cases.
    • Get results of the FileSets Working Group.
    • All of the PCDM community is invited to participate in the above FileSets Working Group.

  3. Start of Examples / Profiles generation

    Due to the calls in the Google groups about having profiles and some people really wanting examples.

    Christina is attempting to add some new organization to make this easier to find and also clarify the state of some discussions. For instance PCDM 2.0 is not a "done deal", but a bunch of proposals that all need discussion to move forward.

    Added a new sidebar to the PCDM wiki, is that good? Won't remove any pages, yet. Perhaps a Diagram grouping page.

    Examples/Profiles page - https://github.com/duraspace/pcdm/wiki/Examples-&-Profiles

    The above is "just a warehouse for examples", and a proposed method to discuss these examples in a better way. To hopefully get to gold star examples or allow for better review of them. To lead to better "profiles".

    Hope that by better discussion we can get to these gold star (⭐️ ) profiles in a more organic manner.

    What is the best way to give an example? Currently you can edit the wiki directly, or email it to the PCDM list. Someone will add it for you. Make sure you add information, like it is a draft, or is being attempted, or as part of a Hydra implementation.

    Just a centralized place to share these ideas and have good discussions about them.

    We are not really sure what the profiles will look like, but if we get some examples that can kick off a discussion about "What do you think a profile will look like?"

    Do the old example diagrams overlap with this new example profile? If they overlap, then we can review how they look. Some that already exist, can be move (and possibly update them).

    Once we start to collect these, then a group can start a discussion (perhaps a google group) about them. But in a way that the discussion does not get lost in other threads.

    The PCDM IRC and mailing list is under-used. We go off and have our discussions in our own communities and come back and discuss at PCDM. Better to discuss at PCDM level to start.

    What is the difference between Work Areas and Shared Resources. Shared Resources were one off things, for example a presentation. Work Areas are where we are trying to foster discussion, so it isn't decided and we need to continue discussion on it.

    Actions:

    • Check out the new organization, and if you have concerns or questions contact Christina.
    • Put your PCDM datamodels up under Examples & Profiles, so others can see. Make sure to label them with any pertinent information. ie. This is a draft, you are using/attempting to use this, its part of a Hydra/Islandora/custom implementation.

  4. ....

    Esme: In-person meetings? Would it make sense, are any conferences happening that people are going to? Email to the mailing lists? Code4Lib? DevX?

    Actions:

    • Esme to send out an email to the PCDM mailing list.

Next calls are:

  • November 3, 2016
  • December 1, 2016
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