Handling Q/Z on 40% keyboards

[calebdw]

Hello!

I've been trying Engram out for a few days now and love the layout, however, I'm at a lose on how to handle the Q/Z letters.

I'm trying to fit the keymap on a 3X5 Corne while still using the lateral center columns for symbols (I thought about placing Q/Z on the bottom of the center columns, however, I believe there's more valuable / frequently accessed symbols that would better suited for those locations as the Q/Z characters are less common.

Some alternatives that I have considered are creating combos for those two letters (though I'm not sure if combos work with shifting mods in ZMK) or placing them on a different layer. Has anyone used this layout on a smaller 40% keyboard and what are some thoughts?

Thanks!

[sunaku]

On a hardware programmable keyboard, you can assign Q and Z to combos or put them on a separate layer to avoid using the right pinky finger for them. In particular, I have a few ideas for combo placement that I'm going to experiment with to further explore your question:

• index columns: -? for Z and ,. for Q
• lower middle columns: xj for Z and mf for Q --- this keeps the index finger free so you can use Shift (via home row mods or dedicated pinky shift) to capitalize those combo letters.
• upper middle columns: yu for Z and lw for Q --- this feels more natural to me and should still work with Shift on the opposite hand for capitalization.
• and so on... 🤔

[calebdw]

@sunaku, the middle column suggestion is very interesting...currently I have the combo on cg for z and np for q and use my pinkie fingers to activate by pressing in the middle of the keys (I have choc spaced chocs). But I might look into those other keys!

[Tristen-Sinanju]

I ended doing a couple moves with my atreus. Should be a layout of mine on here for that somevhere Moved z to b, b to left thumb, and q to right thumb next to space. It works well enough for me and I'm in the 100wpm range. Took a little while to learn the thumbs as a letter, but I ended up enjoying it. I tend to type lower on the keyboard and have short pinkies... So I moved b so I can reach it easier, and left v because it would overburden my thumb to have both v and space on it. Q seemed fine, how little it's used

…

On Thu, Sep 28, 2023, 20:03 CalebW ***@***.***> wrote: @sunaku <https://github.com/sunaku>, the middle column suggestion is very interesting...currently I have the combo on cg for z and np for q and use my pinkie fingers to activate by pressing in the middle of the keys (I have choc spaced chocs). But I might look into those other keys! — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#68 (reply in thread)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AUHHNUFDK22A2SX23UHQX4DX4YM6NANCNFSM6AAAAAA5H5AUQE> . You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[calebdw]

@Tristen-Sinanju, that's interesting moving the letters to the thumb...not sure I'd want to sacrifice the keys that are already there though for the least commonly used letters. I was reading an article that suggested moving a common letter like t to the thumb cluster, but it hasn't been something I've played around with

[Tristen-Sinanju]

here's what i've been working with. i've thought of putting t there, but the roll on engram for t works out really well; didn't feel the need to move it. anyway, here's an example of my current arrangement, including the layers

some of the "layout-analyzer-breaker" layouts move E or T to the thumb, but a haven't found them super comfortable to type with... just make good scores on things like steve-p's fork , aha

[sunaku]

An interesting precedent for putting Q and Z on combos, in the Squeezebox keyboard:

• when y and o are pressed together, they produce z
• when d and w are pressed together, they produce q

[binarybottle]

Macros are always a nice approach, as long as you don't suffer strain from pressing multiple keys simultaneously.

[calebdw]

That's interesting, I've currently settled on combos opposite of that: I press g + x to produce z, and f + p to produce q (on the corne layout)

[sunaku]

There has been fruitful experimentation and discussion on this topic over in the Glove80 keyboard's Discord community, where we've discovered new placements for ZQ and BV (to address some folks' concerns about upper row pinky reachability), as documented here. 💁‍♂️ My favorite is variant ZQ_b by @x10an14: it eliminates lateral movement of the right pinky finger, making the layout truly columnar. 💯

The Z and Q keys overload the right pinky finger asymmetrically in the Engram
layout due to the physical arrangement of traditional row-staggered keyboards.
This is an acceptable compromise because Z and Q are the least frequent letters
in English: although they overload the right pinky finger, it seldom types them.

Similarly, some people dislike reaching up for the B and V keys with their pinky
fingers or even, in some cases, reaching down for the G and P keys too! They may
like the Engram layout but nevertheless dismiss it due to such reasons.

The following variations of the Engram layout may offer some ideas of alternative
placements for these objectionable keys that one may find more comfortable, or at
least preferable, on ergonomic keyboards such as my Glove80.

Z and Q

Variant Z_h

• Z_h = Z on home row

Variant ZQ_l

• ZQ_l = Z and Q on lower row

Variant ZQ_b

Credit: This variant was discovered by @x10an14.

• ZQ_b = Z and Q on bottom row

B and V

Variant BV_h ZQ_u

• BV_h = B and V on home row
• ZQ_u = Z and Q on upper row

Variant BV_h ZQ_l

• BV_h = B and V on home row
• ZQ_l = Z and Q on lower row

Variant BV_h ZQ_b

• BV_h = B and V on home row
• ZQ_b = Z and Q on bottom row

Variant BV_b ZQ_u

Credit: This variant was discovered by @rej156.

• ZQ_u = Z and Q on upper row
• BV_b = B and V on bottom row

Variant BV_b Z_h

• Z_h = Z on home row
• BV_b = B and V on bottom row

Variant BV_b ZQ_l

• ZQ_l = Z and Q on lower row
• BV_b = B and V on bottom row