[!!!] Avoid WindowTop cracked version or you risk the future of this project [!!!] #254
Comments
gileli121
added
the
critical-priority
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Thank you very much, Gileili. Have just bought the software. |
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Support independent developer. Window top is really affordable and with loads of features. So, those who love the product should buy and support the developer. |
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This is disappointing to read. Not quite sure what to say here but honestly not continuing development is not the way to go. I paid for this software and it was nice knowing that I was able to support development. I felt the license was pretty well priced, the cost covering 3 licenses also and it being a lifetime license is what made all the difference to me not to mention a passionate and dedicated development. Piracy is bound to happen but I wonder if there are some things that can be done to pull in some of these users like perhaps offering discount coupons. (Just a thought) Maybe something you could do on special occasions or through other means. I will say not everyone that pirates becomes a lifetime pirate, often at times these people become valued customers so please try to think about that not to mention that some of these pirates may be highly skilled and maybe even be able to help resolve some bugs. Piracy can be a great advertisement too. I would love to see this project continue for many years to come as there is absolutely nothing on the market like this not to mention a developer and team that is so responsive and keyed into things. This is a real bummer man. |
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@Mystqr4 I love to work on this project and stopping to do it is the very last thing that I will do. Edit: |
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I understood it but I guess the alarmist in me was seeing where this could potentially lead. I'm glad you love working on this project. It's a pretty neat one for sure. That's cool. I feel as though your message is pretty clear and more so now. I will add that I don't blame you and that my disappointments are directed more towards the impact this kind of thing has. |
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I love the software; it makes my day-to-day job much easier. Please continue the outstanding work. Perhaps there is a way to adjust the license activation to prevent such abuse. |
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btw you're using a free and open source platform (git) to distribute your freemium and proprietary software. |
So you are saying you are so cheap that you cannot afford to pay $10.00 to keep the project alive? I agree some software houses charge too much for their products and that is why many pirate their programs for. But what's $10.00 to support a worthy cause and an awesome program? |
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What I meant is : I can't pay $10 for every awesome project I use. However, I could pay $10 every month for unlimited use of all awesome projects in the world. |
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I would personally hate to see some sort of netflix or service for software. It's pretty clear those sorts of systems only benefit the parent companies and not the actual developer or producer themselves. Look how well the entire streaming garbage is going now... its a slippery slope and I would rather not have a monthly fee attached to my software regardless of how much I get for that $10 monthly fee. It's truly a system that will lead to abuse from its operators. I don't want to see a dramatic change to the licensing system. I have paid for software with such schemes and I always feel like there is some overheads for such over the top protection schemes and in fact it is true as it will just add to development costs which ultimately gets passed onto the end user and more than that it will likely be more additional hoops to jump through or worse yet just use up more system resources. I'm wondering how many "awesome" projects you have that you can't afford to pay $10 each for as a one time payment for but can afford to pay $10 a month for the rest of your life as another ongoing bill hanging over your head. I would rather pay $10 once and be done with it without having to keep paying for it and anything else for the rest of my life. I'm not begrudging pirates, there will always be users that will find a way to use software for free just as there will always be people that can and will be able to afford to pay for software. I don't feel that pirates are absolutely evil. Some people just cannot afford stuff and its questionable whether they would ever buy it so its best to just focus on paying customers. Things that can and will lure pirates are as follows reliable development (check), Lifetime license (check), affordable prices (Check), Multi system licenses (check), offer discount coupons (?) and no odd activation schemes (semi check here), reasonable freeware version (check). WinRAR is widely pirated but I have also read countless comments over the years of people that chose to pay for it out of gratitude and perhaps a little guilt after many years of pirating it. |
That's because of producers resisting change, keeping their exclusive content for themselves.
So much that creating an app that automates most software cracking steps was cost-effective in time. |
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Interesting, I will not be surprised if KaKi87 is the cracker because he wrote the cracker app assistant tool (or whatever it is). I will not waste time arguing with you. Anyway, please tell your friends in your questionable business to add a warning to the pirate releases link to this page, or at minimum, please write some note that suggests purchasing it if the user can afford it. |
Hi, I'm just new to your app, and it changed my life in so many ways. I've purchased it through the windows store, but I'm gonna purchase two seprate licenses from your website so that you get all the gains. Your really deserve it, what a wonderfull product. I'll make sure to recommend it to my other IT engeneer friends. For those that use the cracked version , at least they won't have support, which is also essential i think. I love every feature, there is only one thing that i'm missing personally in the paid version: That's the ability to reset the window settings, because now I can save my window settings, but if I want to undo everything it takes many clicks, while a reset button next to the save button could that in one click. I thank you very much for this tool and hope it thrives. ps: You'll see the extra purchased licenses in a few minutes ;-) Have a nice day |
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@sebastienbo |
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Pirates gonna pirate. It's inevitable, and short of cloud SaaS, it's (ultimately) unstoppable. The best way to fight piracy is A.) create cool software that people like, B.) that's reasonably priced, and C.) is actively developed, such that word-of-mouth increasingly brings to the screens of those able and willing to pay for it. The worst thing to do would be to gimp development, as that would stunt its snowballing reach via word-of-mouth, and even contribute to a piracy justification of "Well, the dev doesn't seem to care about this project anyway, so no sense supporting it." I get the frustration -- no dev should have to work for free, and it's maddening knowing freeloaders are out there taking and even distributing that work for free. Just realize the majority of those pirate freeloaders weren't going to pay anyway, so it's not necessarily lost sales. Likewise, some pirates will eventually pay, and/or at least function as unwitting QA/testers, as well as advertising to other future potential buyers via word-of-mouth. |
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I like your statement, you are proably right, fighting piracy might just be a waste of energy. Setting Pricing is something really curious, for example: For me something that pushes me to piracy or just another product is unreasanable pricing or subscriptions . So I stay away of credit cards and subscriptions for this reason. I'm not sure if all freeloaders weren't going to not pay anyway, because it might be that they don't have enough money, or find the pricing to high or just don't need support or advanced features. For me windowstop is a real game changer which enhances my productivity , it would be a big loss if it would be gone. I do think that maybe the developer should do some pr (selling he's product), for example by ensuring there are some reviews of he's tool. i for example was experimenting with keep on top software for 2 years and I never encountered a review about windows top, I was amazerd to see it already existed that long, and that it had even better features then the competition. |
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Thank you for the great call. @sebastienbo About what you said here:
I don't try to promote the product on purpose. |
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About the windows store I noticed I typed "window top" it couldn't find your app. I think you should write in the description field of your app "Windows top" with a space so that it can be found when typed appart |
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Thanks for the idea. Thanks for the suggestion. I also reserved the name "WindowsTop" so no one else can take it in the store. It was indeed a good call. Thank you. |
Wrong : most people don't know what can improve their productivity (or any other aspect of their lives) until you present them with options. |
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I agree, i'm IT Software engineer and even for me it took a few years before I was thinking, "I wonder if something could keep my windows on top instead of having to juggle with them" |
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I don't know man, this just makes me not want to buy a license because of fear of deprecation/slow development of the project. Everyone in here gets it, piracy wrong, but this half-threat kind of thing put in the front of the repo just makes legit users interested in the software not want to support it, because of fear of not having a product in a couple of months or having a stalled feature-set, or at least it did for me. |
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Fear? You got it wrong. People are still purchasing it and purchasing it even more. So no fear at all. |
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Things changed since the last post. I am still determining exactly why. I have so much to say about the unfair competition, but then it will be too long. I will try to put it in a short story: My way of life - if the world does not give you back, don't give the world. There is something that drives me crazy. I do see great user feedback that supports my argument (that it is probably better) Without any promotion, without a big brand ("Microsoft".. I am nobody and not a known developer), and still - the number of reviews in the US (in Microsoft store) is 23% (233) of a product that gets extreme promotion (every two days average, another YouTuber talk about it) + use big guy brand (the big guy's class... like Microsoft, apple... not from the nobody class from where I come). Not only that, it gets 4.7, which is higher than 4.6. in the last month, the score increased to 4.8. a way better than what they got. And yet, somehow, the users only invest time to write a great review on the store. But no one takes it to the next step. So again, if anyone thinks that it is worth sharing, do it. Review on the store is great, and I am really grateful for the great reviews. But I need more due to the unfair competition and because I don't see myself investing in promotion. My hobby is writing perfect tools rather than investing in advertising. |
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Always on Top is free on this app even after the trial ended |
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The app does not ask for money to use it is always on top. I don't know how you got it wrong but if you can share feedback on how to make it clear that AOT is free I will appreciate it. I am asking money not for simple features like AOT. Edit: I saw that you deleted your comment. you also understand that your comment was irrelevant and I appreciate it, you did the right thing. |
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Wow, saw it and purchased it in like 15 mins. |
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The Microsoft Store allowed me to overcome all obstacles and successfully purchase it. I am from China |
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Not going to disagree in principle with you, but there are people who ideologically won't purchase a software and will always switch to pirated version, therefore you don't have loss from these because they wouldn't play you anyway. Even if your program wasn't cracked there would still be people who wouldn't buy from you due to price etc, and they would wait as long as they can for pirated version. There is no 100% protection against cracking. Probably you should consider switching to freeware license and to donations from users, many free programs like Notepad++ does this and their products are still developed. And now, my case story and couple of words from myself why pirates/crackers are not 100% at fault: |
I completely agree; attempting to protect against cracking is akin to trying to be a superhero. Even Sony has failed to secure the PS5 against piracy; they resort to paying hackers to avoid exposing how to crack the system. If a product is desirable, it will be cracked. Conversely, if it doesn’t get cracked, the underlying issue is likely that the product is unwanted—which raises questions about the viability of the business overall. A more realistic expectation regarding protection involves techniques like code obfuscation. Expecting to achieve 100% protection against crack, especially when even major companies struggle with it, is unrealistic. I understand that cracking is inevitable for products people want. However, there are those who avoid using cracked versions due to concerns about viruses (which are prevalent in pirated software). Others prefer to pay to support development or to feel they are acting legally. Most of these individuals are unlikely to object to a reasonable price (around $10-$15).
Regarding this scenario, I actually took it into account when developing the licensing system. If you use a version not from the Microsoft Store and enter a license key that fails to connect to the licensing server (due to internet or server issues), it will still activate. In this case, a small warning will indicate that the license could not be validated, but the app will still function normally. This applies only to non-Microsoft Store versions. The Microsoft Store version relies on licensing services provided by Microsoft, and I believe that these services will not shut down; otherwise, it would create a significant issue for all other apps in their store that depend on it. |
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Fair play to you @gileli121. Appreciate your efforts. |
So I just read through this whole thread, and I have to say, this line right here perfectly sums up Microsoft's entire MO. They released Windows Phone years after iPhone/iOS and Android, yet still managed, with all that time to study the competition, to do a crap job of it. Years after 7+ Taskbar Tweaker came out introducing many features that make the taskbar actually usable, they still haven't implemented most of them; in fact, with Win11, they've actually gone backwards in some ways (as they have in many regards). Heck, IIRC, it used to be you couldn't rearrange the taskbar at all, and 7+ introduced that and then some, and when MS made it so you could, they still half-assed it. They introduced the snipping tool which is somehow both extremely slow and lacking in features compared to ShareX and other screenshot apps that have existed for years. Their clipboard history feature is pathetic compared to Ditto. Same goes for their Night Light feature compared to f.lux or even LightBulb. The list goes on and on (Notepad vs Notepad++; Edge vs Brave; Explorer vs XYplorer/DOpus/Everything; Photos vs ImageGlass/XnViewMP; Windows Backup vs Veeam/Macrium; Teams vs Slack/etc; Bing vs DDG/Brave Search/etc), and I'm hard-pressed to think of more than a few apps MS does better than the competition. The built-in calculator, notepad, and file explorer on my Win11 work computer all take at least a few seconds to open, far longer than they did on Win10 and far longer than significantly better alternatives (SpeedCrunch, Notepad++, and pretty much anything vs file explorer) do on my home computer. I finally gave up on PowerToys yesterday due to getting constant (several times daily) crashes, and when I looked through the multitude of features it provides, I found I have no use for any of them, either because they provide no value to me (i.e. I don't have need of the functionality) or because I have something else that does the job 100x better. MS is a company of bare minimum effort and total incompetence. In all the years I've been using various products of their, I can think of one that has worked well, without issue and without causing me significant frustration and wasted time. Aside from Windows itself and Excel, I hardly use any MS products, far preferring alternatives for everything they offer. I guess the point of that rant, aside from just venting about their general shittiness as a company and software creator (not to mention hardware) is that I firmly believe MS is a company that likes to get their hands in as many pies as possible, and they continue to survive only because of their reach and anti-competitive BS (which they're getting worse and worse about as they get more brazen). They don't care about making a good product; they just care about making a good enough one that most (basic) users will find it sufficient enough to not bother with alternatives. While I can't imagine the thinking behind this (why not just save the development time and money and work with the developers of the far superior products or just guide people to their apps), that does seem to be how they operate. And unfortunately, since the vast majority of computer users are basic users, many/most bordering on barely being computer literate, this means their offerings, as terrible as they are, are "adequate" for these people, even if they just don't realize how much better things could be if they just dug a little. I mean, I'll periodically make software suggestions to people in an effort to improve their experience and efficiency, and more often than not they don't bother, and just keep using the basic, built-in garbage MS, Google, et al force-feed us. And so, yes, MS is going to compete, likely unfairly, and it's going to have an impact on your userbase and potential sales. I'm a fan of features being built-in or otherwise offered for free, if they're good, but they're typically not. But free (and I get that this app is free for the basic features) built-in or as an additional app from a big, known company like MS, especially when you can get a bunch of features in one app like PowerToys, is sadly always going to win over a relatively obscure app like this. You just have to realize and accept that you're going to be limited to a userbase of a very small percentage of people that are more "power users," and unfortunately many of those are the same types that know how to pirate, but also many are the type that appreciate the work that goes into something like this and that appreciate actual quality over garbage pumped out by MS. As far as paying vs pirating, I personally don't like to pay for software, but I also don't like to pirate, partly because of the risk of malware, partly because of the hassle, but mostly because, in my experience, you can almost always find something as good or better for free and because many of the times I've paid for software I've come to regret it for various reasons. So I've reached the point I generally only buy or donate to software after I've used it a significant amount of time, to make sure I really like it, it's useful, it functions well, it's actively developed, etc (and even then I've come to regret donating on occasion). I will say that despite only using this for a short time, I'm considering purchasing because it has proven very useful and I appreciate how responsive and receptive you are as a dev. If not for the fact I'm not planning to stay on Windows much longer due to Microsoft's BS, and therefore I don't plan to get use from this beyond the short-term, I'd likely have already bought it. I still might, but for now I'm just trying to contribute in other ways, through feedback. One final note: I hate the MS app store, both due to the fact I don't want to give MS a dime through fees/commission/whatever they call it, and partly because it's garbage (yet another example of releasing something years after many, many other, and far better, examples have been out, yet clearly not learning anything from them). I did initiate the install then cancel it so it would consider it "owned" and let me write a review. |
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All the time you guys were lossing when writing all these emails, the price is
really cheap, why do you make such a fuzz?
If you like the software and it is affordable, like this one, just buy it, it
helps ensuring the software stays up to date.
Its for your own good
I'm more disgusted about the subscriptions, that is something to worry about. I
would never purchase something as part of a subscription
On Wed, 16 Oct 2024 at 01:38, Gil Eliyahu ***@***.***> wrote:
@Coldblackice [https://github.com/Coldblackice]
> Not going to disagree in principle with you, but there are people who
> ideologically won't purchase a software and will always switch to pirated
> version, therefore you don't have loss from these because they wouldn't play
> you anyway.
> Even if your program wasn't cracked there would still be people who wouldn't
> buy from you due to price etc, and they would wait as long as they can for
> pirated version.
> There is no 100% protection against cracking. Probably you should consider
> switching to freeware license and to donations from users, many free
> programs like Notepad++ does this and their products are still developed.
I completely agree; attempting to protect against cracking is akin to trying
to be a superhero. Even Sony has failed to secure the PS5 against piracy; they
resort to paying hackers to avoid exposing how to crack the system. If a
product is desirable, it will be cracked. Conversely, if it doesn’t get
cracked, the underlying issue is likely that the product is unwanted—which
raises questions about the viability of the business overall.
A more realistic expectation regarding protection involves techniques like
code obfuscation. Expecting to achieve 100% protection against crack,
especially when even major companies struggle with it, is unrealistic.
I understand that cracking is inevitable for products people want. However,
there are those who avoid using cracked versions due to concerns about viruses
(which are prevalent in pirated software). Others prefer to pay to support
development or to feel they are acting legally. Most of these individuals are
unlikely to object to a reasonable price (around $10-$15).
> And guess what, activation server didn't work anymore. It was down forever,
> because developer abandoned it and ceased the development altogether.
> So much of my 'lifetime license'....So I found cracked version elsewhere and
> wasn't feeling guilty not to use it BECAUSE I ALREADY PAID FOR IT.
> Pirates are not 100% to blame.
Regarding this scenario, I actually took it into account when developing the
licensing system. If you use a version not from the Microsoft Store and enter
a license key that fails to connect to the licensing server (due to internet
or server issues), it will still activate. In this case, a small warning will
indicate that the license could not be validated, but the app will still
function normally.
This applies only to non-Microsoft Store versions. The Microsoft Store version
relies on licensing services provided by Microsoft, and I believe that these
services will not shut down; otherwise, it would create a significant issue
for all other apps in their store that depend on it.
—
Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub
[#254 (comment)],
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This is so true. |
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WindowTop became popular enough to get cracked very fast after each release.
I decided to reduce development efforts in this project because more people have started using the cracked version.
If this is not going to change, this project will die due to piracy
And you have a part in this outcome.
If, just in case, you use a cracked version, you should stop it, or you will have an outdated & dead app (just like how piracy looks) with no bug fixes.
There are no free gifts.
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