2019 TPAC F2F

[rniwa]

Thanks to @LJWatson and @hober, we have a room at TPAC on Tuesday, September 17th.

Minutes are available here: https://www.w3.org/2019/09/17-components-minutes.html

This issue tracks the agenda for this F2F.

Topics

• ARIA role parity with HTML elements (at 2pm for 30min) discussed on Monday
• Checking in on ::part — any remaining issues to resolve?
• Custom states
• delegatesFocus
• Scoped custom element registries
• Constructible / adopted stylesheets
• Untrusted components
• Stacking UI
• Default focus behaviors for custom elements
• Element reference IDL attributes and Shadow DOM
• Imperative shadow distribution API
• Mitigating flash of unstyled content with custom elements
• JSON modules: They've been built experimentally in Blink, any plans/concerns from other implementers?
• CSS modules: discuss open issues, any blockers to adoption of scoped V1 implementation Ran out of time.
  • Spec draft here
• State propagation of lang, title and dir Ran out of time.

[mfreed7]

I would like to attend this meeting if possible - will signups happen here on this thread, or will this meeting get added to the TPAC registration?

Also, I think you meant Tuesday, Sept 17.

[rniwa]

Corrected the month.

@LJWatson / @hober : Would there be HTML listing for TPAC? Or should we sign up for WICG?

[LJWatson]

The ARIA WG would welcome some time to:

• Share progress on HTML role parity in ARIA 1.2
• Discuss plans for ARIA 1.3 and a proposal to prioritise attribute parity

cc ARIA WG co-chairs @jnurthen and @joanmarie

[annevk]

Is it also possible to have that meeting on another day as it's not directly about web components? (To be clear, it's definitely a meeting worth having.) With regards to web components it might be good to discuss the various APIs around web components and ARIA.

[LJWatson]

The effort to reach HTML role parity was prompted by Web Components, first raised here in #552, and continued in discussion at TPAC 2016.

[LJWatson]

If time is limited on Tuesday, perhaps time could be found for it on the ARIA WG agenda on Monday though?

[jnurthen]

The ARIA working group is fine with either Monday or Tuesday.

[rniwa]

cc'ing more people for agenda building.

@dandclark @travisleithead @justinfagnani @diervo @caridy @muan @JanMiksovsky @tomalec @tkent-google @rakina

TPAC F2F is usually more focused on resolving issues with existing features and intersections with other WG's specifications; e.g. CSS and accessibility related features. If there are any topics you wish we made more progress, please let us know.

[jnurthen]

@LJWatson do you have a time for the meeting with ARIA. I am finalising our agenda.
We can do any time except Tuesday morning when we have other joint meetings scheduled.

[JanMiksovsky]

Topics I’m interested in discussing include:

• Checking in on ::part — any remaining issues to resolve?
• Custom states
• delegatesFocus

Also, could we spend some time discussing support for untrusted components? At the Spring 2019 F2F in Toronto, SalesForce indicated that they do a substantial amount of custom work to defend against security and stability concerns that arise when one org wants to use a component from a different org. It’s my understanding that Amazon has made a large investment in a proprietary component architecture because they don’t want to accept the risks that come with web components. I believe their requirements extend to protecting one internal team from incidental interference caused by components from other internal teams. I recall Apple raising questions about untrusted components back in 2015 or so, but I can’t remember the last time the topic’s been discussed.

[caridy]

From our side, I will like to see progress on the following items (in order of importance):

• scoped registries (not sure if the we have any progress here, @justinfagnani)
• adopted stylesheets (we need to get on the same page to move this forward)
• delegatesFocus (seems that we are pretty close on this one)
• custom states (hopefully we can get some traction on this one, seems to be small enough)
• aria properties (probably to be discussed on the accessibility forum instead)

Additionally, I will like to see few new avenues to be explored:

• As @JanMiksovsky mentioned, untrusted components is by far the biggest, maybe we can just do a small presentation to highlight the current situation, and see if the group is open for explorations on this topic.
• Stacking (modals, popups, etc, we continue having issues with the limitations imposed by the platform on this regards, maybe Iuri can put something together).

[LJWatson]

@jnurthen could you find 30 minutes on the ARIA WG schedule on Monday perhaps? @annevk @domenic @rniwa, as people involved in the original discussion, would that work for you possibly?

[jnurthen]

@jnurthen could you find 30 minutes on the ARIA WG schedule on Monday perhaps? @annevk @domenic @rniwa, as people involved in the original discussion, would that work for you possibly?

Monday - 2pm? @LJWatson @annevk @domenic @rniwa

[rakina]

Recently added the custom element default focusability proposal: #834. Would like to discuss this in TPAC if possible!

[siusin]

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[rniwa]

I've update the OP with the list of topics suggested so far. Let me know if I missed anything.

[rakina]

I've update the OP with the list of topics suggested so far. Let me know if I missed anything.

can you add custom element default focusability: #834?

[rniwa]

I've update the OP with the list of topics suggested so far. Let me know if I missed anything.

can you add custom element default focusability: #834?

Oops, sorry. Done that.

[rniwa]

@jnurthen @LJWatson : Monday 2pm ARIA WG time. Is that to discuss how ARIA / AOM interact with the shadow DOM / custom elements?

[dandclark]

I'm interested in talking about modules, particularly:

• JSON modules: They've been built experimentally in Blink, any plans/concerns from other implementers?
• CSS modules: discuss open issues, any blockers to adoption of scoped V1 implementation
  • Spec draft here

[LJWatson]

@rniwa asked:

: Monday 2pm ARIA WG time. Is that to discuss how ARIA / AOM interact with the shadow DOM / custom elements?>

The original discussion point from @jnurthen was HTML role parity for web components (from #552).

There are different conversations happening around AOM though, including use cases for immersive web, but I'm not sure how/where/when @alice, @cookiecrook and others are planning discussions.

[alice]

I would be happy to attend a session to discuss interactions between ARIA/AOM and Shadow DOM/Custom elements. Sounds like it's out of scope for the already scheduled ARIA WG session though.

[rniwa]

Thanks for the clarifications. So let's schedule 30min ARIA for HTML role parity at 2pm.

@alice : do you want to discuss AOM in a different time slot? I don't think there is necessarily any blocker / concern in AOM pertaining to Shadow DOM / Custom Elements, is there?

[alice]

The thing I had in mind to discuss is the interaction between element reference IDL attributes and Shadow DOM boundaries.

[rniwa]

The thing I had in mind to discuss is the interaction between element reference IDL attributes and Shadow DOM boundaries.

Alright, I added that as a topic. Any preference on when (as in time) to discuss that on Tuesday (e.g. after ARIA role discussion)?

[domenic]

I've added two more topics we'd like to discuss if possible:

• Imperative shadow distribution API: discussion of what we've learned from the flagged implementation in Chromium, both on the implementation side and based on web developer feedback. Discussion of next steps toward formalizing and incorporating into the spec. @fergal will work on some brief slides to guide the discussion.

• Mitigating flash of unstyled content with custom elements: discussion of the problem of FOUC with custom elements, especially as the world moves away from blocking scripts. We have some tentative sketches of what a solution could look like, but mostly want to open the discussion of the problem space. I will work on some slides.

[alice]

Any preference on when (as in time) to discuss that on Tuesday (e.g. after ARIA role discussion)?

Tuesday is looking pretty free for me so far, other than 11am. I'd like to sit in on the ARIA discussion anyway, so immediately following that would be convenient.

Thank you!

[rniwa]

@cookiecrook : Does Tuesday 2:30pm also work for you (AOM discussion)?

[LJWatson]

@rniwa

So let's schedule 30min ARIA for HTML role parity at 2pm.>

To confirm, this is on the Tuesday agenda?

[cookiecrook]

@rniwa Yes

[smaug----]

State propagation of lang, title and dir (are there other cases?)
whatwg/html#4906
whatwg/html#3821
whatwg/html#3699

In general we should go through the existing issues.

(in addition to those attribute states, we have had some rather tricky issues open for years, selection handling, session history etc.)

[rniwa]

@smaug---- : Added that as a topic. I agree we should go through existing issues. I think we should probably allocate 2-3 hours of triaging session.

[rniwa]

@lwatson / @hober : which room do we have on Tuesday & at what time are we starting?

[tomalec]

Could you also post the IRC channel that will be used for the meeting?

[smaug----]

I guess we can use the same channel as last time, so, #components on irc.w3.org

[rniwa]

I talked to Tess in person, and the plan is to meet at 9am at Yoh, 3F.

[hober]

Thank you, everyone, for a productive and interesting meeting yesterday. The minutes are here: https://www.w3.org/2019/09/17-components-minutes.html

[annevk]

The next meeting will likely be end of March 2020 in Paris.