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[director-free] Gratuitous mentions of the Director #254

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merged 2 commits into from
Aug 12, 2020
Merged

[director-free] Gratuitous mentions of the Director #254

merged 2 commits into from
Aug 12, 2020

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frivoal
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@frivoal frivoal commented Feb 19, 2019

This pull request removes a number of gratuitous / decorative / redundant mentions of the Director. It changes nothing about the decision power of the Director, instead it focuses on two things (in separate commits):

  • Redundant mentions of the Director, such as things like “the Director’s decision to FOO” when FOO is already defined to be something only the Director can decide.
  • Cases where the team must announce something and where no decision is involved. In such cases claiming that the announcement is made in the name of the Director isn't very helpful. Since the Team does these announcements in practice, just replace “the Director must announce…” by “the Team must announce…”.

@frivoal frivoal added the Agenda+ Marks issues that are ready for discussion on the call label Feb 19, 2019
@frivoal frivoal self-assigned this Feb 19, 2019
@jeffjaffe
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While I agree with Florian's logic, since we IAC plan to relook at the Role of the Director, I would prefer not to make this change at this time. Making the change will require me to find the Director to ensure that he agrees, which seems like an unnecessary intrusion on his time under these circumstances.

cwilso
cwilso reviewed Mar 13, 2019
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frivoal commented Mar 13, 2019

@jeffjaffe For any change to regarding the Director that actually changes what the Director does, I'd agree that we should not do that without involving him. I feel more comfortable with this edit because because it is effectively a stylistic edit, that doesn't change anything other than how many time the word "Director" is mentioned.

I think the substantive discussions about the role of the Director, which ever way they go, will be simplified if we can look at the process that mentions the Director when he actually has a role, so that we don't have to deal with the mental overhead (and the git conflicts) or remembering that half the time he's mentioned it doesn't actually do anything.

@jeffjaffe
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@frivoal fwiw, the reason that I feel that the Director needs to be involved even for an apparently stylistic edit is because people don't always agree on what is stylistic: cf. IE Chair example found by @cwilso

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OK. Let's do all the "role of the Director" edits on a branch, with reasonably distinct pull requests for each 'layer', roughly:

  • remove cross-referential, gratuitous non-defining, mentions of the Director
  • change the simple cases where it’s described as the Director but actually the team (announces, mostly)
  • change the cases where it’s the CEO (discipline and management mostly)
  • change the cases where we remove the Director
    — TAG membership, chair, and ability to appoint,
    — hearing formal objections and chair appeals

I think there was some thought that maybe we could do the first two on main branch, but on reflection, it's probably better to do all this in a sandbox.

@frivoal frivoal added DirLess DO NOT MERGE: work in progress PRs that are not complete yet, and therefore not yet proposed for merging labels Mar 15, 2019
@frivoal frivoal force-pushed the gratuitous-mentions-of-director branch 2 times, most recently from e15c578 to 8ab7282 Compare March 19, 2019 14:13
@dwsinger dwsinger removed the Agenda+ Marks issues that are ready for discussion on the call label Apr 22, 2019
@frivoal frivoal changed the title Gratuitous mentions of the Director [director-free] Gratuitous mentions of the Director May 20, 2019
@frivoal frivoal force-pushed the gratuitous-mentions-of-director branch from 8ab7282 to 73e6df2 Compare May 20, 2019 14:13
MY979
MY979 suggested changes May 26, 2019
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understand anything I'm sorry I'm Newton this thing

@frivoal frivoal added this to the Deferred milestone Mar 11, 2020
frivoal added 2 commits July 2, 2020 18:17
@frivoal
Remove redundant or decorative references to the Director
b96e89b 
A number of sentences in the Process made mentions of the Director that
did not add any information, for example by mentioning something like
“the Director’s decision to FOO” when FOO is already defined to be
something only the Director can decide.

This removes all such redundant mentions of the Director.

This commit does not change any of the Director’s powers.
@frivoal
Announcements are handled by the Team
c939c6b 
Announcements which are required by the process and do not involve a
judgement call or a decision are handled by the Team.
The Team, as per the Process, claims to do so in the name of the
Director, but given that these do not involve a Director's decision,
this claim isn't particularly meaningful.

This commit replaces “the Director” by “the Team” in such cases,
to better reflect reality.

Besides, the Director is defined to be part of the Team anyway, so he
can still make the announcements himself or have an announcement sent on
his behalf in cases where that would feel more appropriate.

This commit does not change any of the Director’s powers.
@frivoal frivoal force-pushed the gratuitous-mentions-of-director branch from eeabf9f to c939c6b Compare July 2, 2020 09:38
@frivoal frivoal changed the base branch from master to main July 10, 2020 06:33
tantek
tantek approved these changes Jul 15, 2020
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LGTM. Thanks for this detailed work!

@dwsinger dwsinger removed the DO NOT MERGE: work in progress PRs that are not complete yet, and therefore not yet proposed for merging label Jul 15, 2020
wseltzer
wseltzer reviewed Jul 15, 2020
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one point of suggested clarification once "Director" is removed from the sentence.

index.bs

[=Transition Requests=] to [=First Public Working Draft=]
or [=Candidate Recommendation=]
will not normally be approved
while a [=Working Group=]'s [=charter=] is undergoing or awaiting a [=Director=]'s decision
while a [=Working Group=]'s [=charter=] is undergoing or awaiting a decision
on an [=Advisory Committee Review=].</p>
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s/on an AC Review/after an AC Review/ for clarity

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I think I prefer it the way it is, but I don't feel strongly. Any third opinion?

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agree to leave it unchanged

@css-meeting-bot css-meeting-bot mentioned this pull request Jul 15, 2020
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@frivoal frivoal modified the milestones: Deferred, Process 2021 Jul 15, 2020
@frivoal frivoal added the Agenda+ Marks issues that are ready for discussion on the call label Jul 29, 2020
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The Revising W3C Process CG just discussed Director-Free, and agreed to the following:

  • RESOLVED: Accept DF PR
The full IRC log of that discussion <fantasai> Topic: Director-Free
<fantasai> github: https://github.com//pull/254
<jeff> q+
<dsinger_> ack jef
<fantasai> florian: One comment by wendy, I disagree, neither feels strongly
<fantasai> fantasai: They needed a tiebreaker, so I'll break in favor of no change
<fantasai> wseltzer rescinds change request so that we can all move forward and merge in these changes
<fantasai> dsinger_: OK, let's execute. if we catch error, can fix
<fantasai> RESOLVED: Accept DF PR

@css-meeting-bot css-meeting-bot removed the Agenda+ Marks issues that are ready for discussion on the call label Aug 12, 2020
@frivoal frivoal added the Closed: Accepted The issue has been addressed, though not necessarily based on the initial suggestion label Aug 12, 2020
@frivoal frivoal merged commit 9a9102a into w3c:main Aug 12, 2020
@frivoal frivoal deleted the gratuitous-mentions-of-director branch August 12, 2020 15:11
@frivoal frivoal added the DoC This has been referenced from a Disposition of Comments (or predates the use of DoCs) label Aug 21, 2020
@frivoal frivoal added the Director-free (all) All issues & pull request related to director-free. See also the topic-branch label Jul 28, 2021
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@MY979 MY979 MY979 requested changes

@tantek tantek tantek approved these changes

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Closed: Accepted The issue has been addressed, though not necessarily based on the initial suggestion Director-free (all) All issues & pull request related to director-free. See also the topic-branch DoC This has been referenced from a Disposition of Comments (or predates the use of DoCs)
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@frivoal @jeffjaffe @dwsinger @css-meeting-bot @tantek @wseltzer @cwilso @MY979