Minimum size of empty pane is fairly big

[jitseniesen]

This is a follow up on PR #21334, where I made the comment below. We decided to address it at a later time in order to merge the PR.

One thing I noticed when I recorded the video in #21145 (comment) is that the minimum size of an empty pane is quite big, certainly larger than when the pane is not empty. It is not possible to make the Variable Explorer pane any smaller at the start of the video, when the pane is empty,

Originally posted by @jitseniesen in #21134 (comment)

[ccordoba12]

Thanks for opening this issue @jitseniesen! Right now I 'm not sure how we could address it, unless we provide an option to not show empty panes.

[jitseniesen]

An easy (though perhaps too simple) solution is to set the minimum size of the picture in an empty pane to 1x1. This allows the pane to be roughly twice as small, as shown in the video.

reduce-new.mp4

For comparison, below is the current situation. The empty panes take up twice as much vertical space as the console and it is not possible to shrink the empty panes.

reduce-old.mp4

I can prepare a PR (it's a one-line change) if we like this approach.

[ccordoba12]

That's an interesting suggestion but I'm not so sure about its UX because the image doesn't shrink automatically when the pane's height is decreased, it's collapsed on the top instead.

Another possible solution could be to add a new option to Preferences > Application > Panes called Show message on empty panes (enabled by default) and use that option in all plugins that show those messages to decide if they should do it at startup.

[jitseniesen]

@ccordoba12 wrote:

That's an interesting suggestion but I'm not so sure about its UX because the image doesn't shrink automatically when the pane's height is decreased, it's collapsed on the top instead.

Shrinking the image should be possible but it will be more than one line of code. I'll think about how to achieve this.

Another possible solution could be to add a new option to Preferences > Application > Panes called Show message on empty panes (enabled by default) and use that option in all plugins that show those messages to decide if they should do it at startup.

I don't think that addresses my main concern (which I may well have never explained). Suppose that there are no plots, so the Plots pane is empty, but there are some variables. If the Variable Explorer pane is visible and the Plots pane is "behind" it, then the empty Plots pane constrains how much the user can shrink the Variable Explorer pane. The result is that the user can't shrink the Variable Explorer pane as much as they would expect. I think most users would not realize that the reason for this is the empty Plots pane (it took me a while to figure this out).

If you do know the reason, then you can just close the empty Plots pane to resolve the issue, so having a new option is not absolutely necessary. I also think that the text is quite nice to have so I don't want to hide it. The picture on the other hand is eye candy, it looks good but it does not convey any information. I don't like it that a non-functional UI element prevents the user from doing what they want to do (shrinking the pane).

However, this is only a real issue for small window sizes (less than around 800 pixels in height), or if the user increases the size of the font and other UI elements (as you would do for a presentation). So arguably it is not critical for the Spyder 6 release.

[ccordoba12]

Shrinking the image should be possible but it will be more than one line of code. I'll think about how to achieve this.

A possibility that occurs to me is to add a method to PaneEmptyWidget that works in resizeEvent and descreases the rescale factor of the image when there's no vertical space available (I don't know how to detect the last part, but the other things should be doable).

I don't think that addresses my main concern (which I may well have never explained). Suppose that there are no plots, so the Plots pane is empty, but there are some variables. If the Variable Explorer pane is visible and the Plots pane is "behind" it, then the empty Plots pane constrains how much the user can shrink the Variable Explorer pane. The result is that the user can't shrink the Variable Explorer pane as much as they would expect. I think most users would not realize that the reason for this is the empty Plots pane (it took me a while to figure this out).

Ok, I understand your point of view better now. Then we could follow your proposed solution for 6.0 and improve it in a later release.

[ccordoba12]

I moved this to 6.1.0 (to be released in six months or so) because it requires changes to our API. In the meantime people can hide the Debugger, Plots and Find panes to avoid this when working with the Variable Explorer.

[BlankAdventure]

Hi, I posted #22586. Agreed that its the same issue as discussed here, but I wanted to bring a little more heat to it. Its effectively the same as @jitseniesen comment, but for me, kind of reversed in that I often want to make the upper pane smaller so I can see more of the console or command history. Not being able to do this is a pretty big UX issue IMO. I'm curious why this has become an issue - resizing worked fine in previous versions (in 5.4.3 at least).

edit: Per some of the comments above, why can't the panes just be empty, as they are in 5.4.3?

[ccordoba12]

Not being able to do this is a pretty big UX issue IMO.

I wouldn't say big, but annoying for sure.

Per some of the comments above, why can't the panes just be empty, as they are in 5.4.3?

Because there's a lot of empty space in Spyder and it's not easy for newbies to understand how it can be filled.