The future of ESPAltherma

[raomin]

Hello everyone!

I've been considering several options for developing further ESPAltherma and I'd like your opinion.
I'll briefly describe each of them and I'll let you vote for the one you prefer. I'm not saying I'll follow immediately with implementation but your votes will definitely guide me (and possible other contributors!).

Heat pump Autodetect

Seeing the numerous issues with users unsure on which definition file should be used, I believe we should simplify this...
There are very minor differences between the definitions, mainly 3-4 big families. I guess we could design a default auto-detect mode that would identify which protocol (I/S) and which HP family (High temp, geo, gas, low temp) from probing specific registers.
This would require some support from some of you but I guess we can figure this out and that would greatly help.

Web installer

Still trying to facilitate adoption here. The current installation process might be a bit daunting with the need for Platformio, changing config files etc. even if we have numerous positive feedbacks from First-time-hackers.
ESPAltherma could integrate a web installer that would deploy from the browser the firmware to the esp device, using esp-web-tools. This would be facilitated with the Autodetect feature so that there would be only a couple of firmware to maintain.

ESPHome integration

ESPAltherma as an espHome component. Not sure yet how it would work in practice but I assume this could be done.

A custom ESPAltherma board

Why not. A crstom board with an ESP32, the right connectors (!), and a set of relays to connect as thermostat, to the smart grid SG1/SG2... Sold at a reasonable price, maybe crowdfunded?

Fine Consumption control through X85A + Pulse meter

There are ways that ESPAltherma could control the power consumption of the HP. Through the X85A+Pulse meter with simple GPIOs and or through the SG1/SG2 port (already supported). ESPAltherma acting as a pulse meter of solar installation would allow for fine precision in the power consumption.

HomeAssistant improved integration

Declaring manually each sensor in HA is not really a good user experience and could be avoided with a better integration with HA. Either through an integration plugin or through the automated declaration of all values as sensor in MQTT. That would make a lot of sensors though.

Other ideas?

Add your own in comments below and let's discuss!

[colseven]

Control of the hot water temperature in the domestic hot water storage tank.

[GO74]

That would be really nice.

[GO74]

We could trick the System if we would switch between a resistor based voltage divider (simulating >60°C) and the actual probe. Altherma wouldn't heat up the storage if the (fake) measurement is above the desired temperature. So if we want hot water, we switch to the actual sensor. We could then either heat it up to 60°C to disinfect the system (every couple of weeks), or switch back to the fake measurement when we reached the desired temperature.

[javimurcia]

I think that could be more easily accomplished using the P1P2 interface (that allows you to change your DHW setpoint at will, if your heat pump is supported) or via the cloud (i think there are libraries that allows you to interact with daikin's cloud to change your DHW setpoint)

Also, it depends on what you want to archive, if you want to produce hot water on demand, you can configure your heat pump with 2 setpotins for DHW (an eco setpoint and a confort setpoint).
You can use the smart grid interface to make the heat pump switch to the confort setpoint.

[GO74]

Well, mine isn't connected to any cloud and as far as I know ESPAltherma can (only) read whatever is on the x10a. So the easy option for me would be switching back an forth to a fake temp sensor.

[GO74]

How about sending COP and doing the calculations directly on the ESP? Small feature, but why not?

[alexdelli]

I think the ESPhome integration is the future. I have a lot of esp32 rpeater in my house, so signal is everywhere without using wifi repeater.
The integrations could be made via WEbGUI: this is an example:
https://esphome.github.io/bluetooth-proxies/

[ap20132022]

how about integration + coorperation with pyHSPU?
Actually I need pyHSPU for some more informations (valve, water pressure...). I need to install both devices to get all the information. It will be wonderfull if only one device needed.
ESP doesn't have CAN-Bus. So I think we need here raspberry or a pc.

[KalaNagHTD]

I also use pyHPSU in addition. The downside of such an integration is that just the HPSU has the CAN-Bus. So the pyHPSU integration has no benefit for the majority of Altherma owners.

[javimurcia]

The esp32 has a can controller, it's only missing the Transceiver, so i don't see why this cannot be implemented on a esp32.

BTW, check this https://github.com/Arnold-n/P1P2Serial maybe it can querry the information you are seeking

[KalaNagHTD]

BTW, check this https://github.com/Arnold-n/P1P2Serial maybe it can querry the information you are seeking

This serial bus is for the Daikin air conditioners and not implemented with the HPSU/ECH2O built before 2/2022. Even for the recent version I‘m not sure.

[amasciotta]

Since I had (and still have) a lot of trouble to choose the right setup file, I think the heat pump autodetect feature would be a great addition, especially for newcomers

[Ripley42]

My installer failed to install an external thermistor even though the outdoor unit catches direct sunlight and reports wrong temperatures. This obstructs the use of WD curves and automatic switching between heating and cooling modes. I could try to run an external thermistor to my roof myself, but I’ve been thinking about emulating the thermistor with a DAC and controlling the input with the temperature reported by a weather service. Maybe a useful addition to your project.

[javimurcia]

You don't need to place the external thermistor at the roof, you just need to place it on the north face of your house, and away from any heat source (a vent for instance), so at long its more than 1.5 meters from the ground, you are good to go.

BTW, if you want to emulate a thermistor, what you need is a digital potentiometer, you can find the temperature - resistance chart of the original thermistor at page 262 here: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/2560305/Daikin-Altherma-3-M.html?page=262

[Ripley42]

The neighbors have the North side of the house. I have a space on my roof that is completely sheltered from the sun, but it’s hard to get to with a wire. That’s why I thought of emulating the sensor. Thanks for the spec and the headsup about the potentiometer.

[abmantis]

@javimurcia have you tried it? I was wondering about using a digital potentiometer as a fake indoor temperature sensor to use modulation: #412

[chillymattster]

Hi there,
I don't know if this has already been discussed somewhere or if I'm to late as I found this project just a few days ago.
What about adding CAN support as well?
There is an older pull request stating that some preparations have been made. And there is a nice this nice "ATOM CANBus Kit (CA-IS3050G)" from M5Stack for the Atom lite which would allow the use of CAN and in addition the serial X10 connection via Grove cable.
In my opinion this would be a great chance to close the gap and finally get all the values like water pressure and precise valve positions out of our devices as well as opening the opportunity to start controlling our heat pumps via CAN, e.g. setting operating modes and changing temperatures.

[munzili]

Just to add my peanuts

In a couple of days will be my PR #110 ready for a "possible" merge. ATM i'm merging changes from the main branch into my work. Some minor tests also still needs to be done and small changes are open

This will contain the webui features, CAN Feature and other stuff but also will/may create backwards incompatibility (Not sure if ESP8266 still can be somehow supported, i'm still looking into this).

[maromme]

that sounds great. would you mind implementing the i2c library for the port expander as I added in #273 (it's for sure in a nicer way possible than done by me). For those using the m5stick the three "free" GPIOs might not be enough. I at least neet SG1/SG2/heat/cool and the x85a feature #262 Means 8 GPIOs. I merged the for my use the main branche #273 and #262 into a running system. Just the colling feature missing

[munzili]

All open PR #260, #262, #273 are easy to be merged.

[maromme]

if you need someone testing I'd volunteer

[Kepro]

I would say ESPHome will simplify things and also integration with HA

[neildsb]

+1 ESPHome Please :-)

[mdr-github]

This is an old thread but I'm new to the project, just installed my ESPAltherma yesterday :)

The web installer would be nice. I was able to manage with PlatformIO but only after much fiddling. There is a learning curve since this was my first project, but I worked it out. I couln't get the virtual COM port to work on Windows 11 and had to resort back to another computer running Windows 10. These issues aren't project specific, but still a web installer would be nice for newcomers.

I see a lot of votes for autodetect, but think this 'issue' can also be resolved with just a bit more documentation. I'm assuming you know what model heat pump you have (which you should if you've spent that much cash on one). Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but then it's just a matter of looking up the model using the Daikin naming scheme. But on that topic, a bit more documentation on the various MQTT values would be nice as well.

+1 on the COP value, this is a key metric and so much easier if the ESP32 can calculate and report this directly.

Keep up the good work @raomin, thanks!

[scapman]

+1 ESPHome. That would be great!
Thanks!

[fernwerker]

@raomin, is there already any esphome activity planned or ongoing?

[D-hofer]

A API interface with JSON data would be great. Then you can easily integrate the values to other home automation system directly without an additional server/bridge/...

[fernwerker]

By the way, I think the votes for "HomeAssistant improved integration" and "ESPHome integration" can be consolidated as ESPHome brings a better HomeAssistant integration.

So, this joint approach would have >60% votes. 😄

[engelchrisi]

You can try my esphome integration based on the ESPAltherma code at your own risk of course. You need some experience with custom components in esphome to do so:

https://github.com/engelchrisi/ESPAltherma