Monero Community Workgroup Meeting: Saturday 5th November 2022

[plowsof]

Location: Libera.chat, #monero-community | Matrix

Instructions for joining the monero.social Matrix server.

Time
16:00 UTC Check your timezone

Moderator: plowsof

Please reach out in advance of the meeting if you would like to propose an agenda item.

Proposed Meeting Items:

1. Introduction
2. Greetings
3. Community highlights
   News: Monero Observer - Monero Moon - Revuo Monero
4. CCS updates
   a. [monero-bash v2.0.0] (hidden - author asks to postpone)
   b. The-Monero-Moon-CCS-Proposal-August2022-John-Foss (hidden - awaiting response from author)
   c. Forgotsudo monero marketplace (awaiting re submission of Web Of Trust milestone)
   d. Develop selfhostable monero payment processor (close)
   e. Gupax: GUI for P2Pool+XMRig (edited after feedback - awaiting decision)
   f. Support for monero in rotki (closed)
   g. Monero Paper Wallets
   h. Metronero Checkout
5. Workgroup reports
   a. Dev workgroup
   b. Localization workgroup
   c. Outreach workgroup
   d. Events workgroup - MoneroKon MoneroKon 2023 Planning Meeting: Saturday 12 November 2022 @ 18:00 UTC #749
   e. Website workgroup
   f. Policy workgroup
   g. Research workgroup Monero Research Lab Meeting - Wed 02 November 2022 #748
   h. Seraphis Migration workgroup
6. Open ideas time
7. Confirm next meeting date/time

Prev meeting logs:
#742

Meeting logs will be posted here afterwards.

[plowsof]

Logs

16:00:05 <plowsof> Meeting time https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/747

16:00:20 <plowsof> 2. Greetings

16:00:30 <plowsof> hello everyone

16:01:46 <hinto[m]> hi

16:01:48 <plowsof> while we wait for people to come in, just wanted to share that a few ccs proposals have
completed some of their milestones (namely the atomic swap gui proposal who we where asking for an update on)
https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-proposals/-/commits/master

16:01:49 <pwhx[m]> Hi!

16:02:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> Greetings

16:02:23 <monerobull[m]> Hello

16:02:28 <copenhagen_bram[> hola

16:02:31 <pwhx[m]> glad to be here

16:03:05 <ajs_[m]> Hi

16:03:10 <pandapaperwallet> Hi

16:04:40 <DiegoSalazar[m]> Hi

16:04:44 <pwhx[m]> Hi everyone

16:05:01 <plowsof> lets talk about the proposals we've mostly made a decision on , if anyone has any
objections

16:05:10 <plowsof> a. [[monero-bash v2.0.0]](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-
proposals/-/merge_requests/333) (hidden - author asks to postpone)

16:05:24 <plowsof> 'hide' this from the ideas page yes/no

16:05:47 <plowsof> author wants that, correct hinto ?

16:06:41 <hinto[m]> yes, hidden

16:06:41 <monerobull[m]> plowsof: Yes

16:06:51 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yes

16:07:02 <plowsof> b. [The-Monero-Moon-CCS-Proposal-August2022-John-Foss](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-
project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/336) (hidden - awaiting response from author)

16:07:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ive said it 100x, close

16:07:26 <plowsof> i've contacted johnfoss 25th October on reddit, the last reply from him was Oct 28 where he
said he would replly on the 29th if he had time.

16:08:36 <ofrnxmr[m]> Moon should also ve removed from agenda "news" section - hasnt had a release in a long
time

16:08:39 <plowsof> does anyone want to wait for a response?

16:08:50 <Stnby[m]> plowsof: We dont like it

16:09:04 <Stnby[m]> * We dont like it with Siren

16:09:10 <plowsof> i believe localmonero have an active newsletter than can replace them

16:09:27 <monerobull[m]> Yes

16:09:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> Not me. Waited long enough. If foss doesnt went to engage now there is nothing stooping
him from opening a ccs later when he cares

16:09:42 <monerobull[m]> Monero standard is great

16:10:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Close, please and thanks

16:10:24 <plowsof> ive pinged luigi1111 , so he should drop in soon/later

16:10:48 <plowsof> is there anyone here who wants monero moon to be funded right now?

16:11:35 <ofrnxmr[m]> No need to ask

16:11:37 <plowsof> going once.... twice.....

16:11:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Gone

16:11:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Next business, please

16:12:32 <plowsof> c. [Forgotsudo monero marketplace](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-
proposals/-/merge_requests/340) (awaiting re submission of Web Of Trust milestone)

16:12:32 <merope> Would be nice to have at least a response from him before moving the proposal to funding

16:13:10 <plowsof> it has been a while i must say (every comment he receives a notification for)

16:13:35 <monerobull[m]> I like what onionr is doing, what's the current status on the web of trust?

16:13:48 <ofrnxmr[m]> endor00: were voting to close or wait. Do you want to see moon funded without a
response?

16:13:49 <DiegoSalazar[m]> One of the downsides of a self hosted gitlab is not logging in often to see the
notifications though.

16:13:49 <luigi1111> Driving

16:14:00 <ofrnxmr[m]> We've been waiting officially for 2 week (1week past the deadline)

16:14:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Onionr I vote hide for now

16:14:34 <plowsof> 'forgot sudo' has support for resubmitting with just 1 milestone, they have just not
responded yet

16:14:58 <merope> ofrnxmr[m]: Oh sorry, misread. No, what I meant is that if the proposal is to move forward,
we'd need *at least* a response from him on any open questions. (Haven't followed too closely, so I'm not 100%
up to date on its status)

16:15:12 <selsta> I'd be careful with funding any kind of onion marketplaces but that's just my personal
opinion

16:15:15 <ofrnxmr[m]> Diego Salazar:  hes been pinged personally

16:15:24 <plowsof> i contacted him on the 25th and he said he would look at it 'tomorrow' on the 28th

16:15:25 <ofrnxmr[m]> Its a weekly newsletter - but its been weeks since hes checked in on his proposal and
months since releasing a newsletter. ---------- close

16:15:31 <plowsof> moon/johnfoss^

16:15:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof:  I Vote hide pending resubmission

16:16:31 <plowsof> for onionr , yes ,  the reason for resubmitting the Web of trust milestone is that it would
be useful (in isolation) for other projects (apparently)

16:16:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> C l o s e plowsof:  luigi1111:  wasting time re: moon

16:17:07 <merope> "Resubmitting" a milestone? What's that?

16:17:27 <monerobull[m]> plowsof: For example, I could put reviews for my shop on there, right?

16:18:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> They are going to edit the ccs or  resubmit a ccs for the specific milwstone (web of
trust) endor00:

16:18:48 <plowsof> i do not know exactly what this WoT provides (yet) myself

16:19:15 <merope> Oh ok, I see - so we're voting to keep the proposal hidden until they do that. I approve

16:19:29 <plowsof> resubmitting is just changing the proposal and put it up for discussion again (be it close
/ resubmit or edit)

16:19:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> So instead of funding the marketplace, it would only be for web of trust part of it,
which should - in theory - be useful to other projects

16:19:49 <selsta> ofrnxmr[m]: sounds more reasonable

16:19:57 <monerobull[m]> That's the plan

16:20:44 <merope> Yeah, not too crazy about funding the direct development of dnms myself either

16:20:45 <plowsof> i agree , that would be the plan for this one then (only with one milestone - wot)

16:20:45 <merope> One way or another, that's just asking for trouble

16:21:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> I think consensus on this one is hide and allow them to resubmit/edit and we come back
to it later

16:21:48 <plowsof> d. [Develop selfhostable monero payment processor](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-
project/ccs-proposals/-/merge_requests/345) (close)

16:22:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Stnby:  any comment?

16:22:57 <Stnby[m]> we tried to negotiate if he would be interested in working together with us

16:23:07 <Stnby[m]> On our project and find a common goal

16:23:16 <luigi1111> Vote to close it right now

16:23:25 <Stnby[m]> But his goals seemed a bit out of scope of ours

16:23:46 <Stnby[m]> I'd say close

16:23:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> Did you receive any info that would give us reason to merge?

16:23:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> Otherwise were at closen

16:24:33 <plowsof> i vote to close , they also want the funds upfront

16:25:10 <Siren[m]> Stnby[m]: He wants to primarily support Windows. He also wants a more monolithic solution,
download wallet-rpc etc from the website automatically or build everything into a binary (he didn't elaborate
how). Also wouldn't like to use our payment processor of choice, MoneroPay.

16:25:10 <merope> +1 close

16:25:29 <ofrnxmr[m]> Close

16:25:31 <Siren[m]> * He wants to primarily support Windows. He also wants a more monolithic solution,
download wallet-rpc etc from the website automatically or build everything into a binary (he didn't elaborate
how). Also didn't like to use our payment processor of choice, MoneroPay.

16:25:44 <plowsof> feels very 'bespoke' also

16:25:48 <monerobull[m]> Close

16:25:54 <monerobull[m]> Funds upfront are you insane

16:26:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ok, next

16:26:16 <plowsof> e. [Gupax: GUI for P2Pool+XMRig](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-
proposals/-/merge_requests/350) (edited after feedback - awaiting decision)

16:26:55 <monerobull[m]> Tldr for changes?

16:27:07 <ofrnxmr[m]> hinto @hinto.janaiyo:matrix.org:  my only request is 75xmr for deliver of the 1.0 and 25
xmr for the 12 months of maintainence / updates (including major)

16:27:26 <plowsof> ofrnxmr has issues with "maintenance" - hinto edited in that it would be 'free as long as
he was in the community' and clarified that maintenance would only be small changes (filenames.. hashes etc)

16:28:13 <monerobull[m]> Yeah idk sounds like the maintenance is so minimal, with a tutorial even I'd be able
to keep it running

16:28:39 <hinto[m]> maintenance really wouldn't be too much, so i don't think it's necessary to make a big
deal out of it

16:28:53 <ofrnxmr[m]> I do

16:28:55 <plowsof> since the last meeting, hinto has released a version of his proof of concept for
windows/mac/linux

16:28:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Because you dont.

16:29:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> If you thought it was np, why not accept.

16:29:37 <merope> I mean, unless p2pool's interface/behaviour changes dramatically, I wouldn't expect any
significant changes in the underlying code

16:29:37 <ofrnxmr[m]> Unless you feel like you'll lose 25 xmr by not maintaining it?

16:30:26 <plowsof> hinto does not want to accept funds for maintaining it

16:30:26 <hinto[m]> because there's no point in drawing out 25 xmr over 12 months

16:30:26 <ofrnxmr[m]> I agree, but p2pool adds features and is growing / changing all the time

16:30:42 <hinto[m]> merope: this is exactly correct

16:31:20 <DiegoSalazar[m]> I mean, we can't edit the proposal for him. His proposal is 100 for the thing upon
completion.

16:31:28 <DiegoSalazar[m]> Yay or nay on terms as stated?

16:31:55 <hinto[m]> true, mostly adding new command flags, but those are easy to implement

16:31:55 <monerobull[m]> If it's so much of a problem for ofrnxmr: and so little work for hinto
@hinto.janaiyo:matrix.org:  ask for 5 xmr extra paid out after a year ..

16:31:55 <plowsof> i say yes

16:32:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Nay on terms as stated from me. No maintenance is included

16:32:51 <merope> ofrnxmr[m]: "Maintenance after initial release should be very minimal and would of course be
free." Sounds included to me? 🤔

16:33:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Free =/= ccs. In the comments he says "as long as hes in the community", which could be
day, weeks, years

16:34:11 <merope> I like the proposal (which is pretty much 100XMR for a finished gui, right?), +1 in favor

16:34:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> All I ask is a 12 month commitment to a 15k project

16:34:31 <plowsof> some back story here , i have passed on suggestions from us reg monero-bash to hinto -
which he added/changed to that proposal (after a long time of discussions) - and we didnt like it / its not
going to funding. will the same happen here? this is discouraging

16:35:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> I wont block it, but in 100% against merging without guaranteed maintenance

16:35:23 <plowsof> hinto is a "valuable" alias (if we are worried he will vanish) - he has 1 prev completed
ccs and merged code in monero core

16:35:45 <Siren[m]> <merope> "I mean, unless p2pool's interfac..." <- In case of dramatic changes, maybe he
can create follow-up proposals and we can fund it this way?

16:35:52 <ofrnxmr[m]> No

16:35:54 <merope> Tbh I'm not sure what work you would expect him to do in those 12 months

16:36:10 <merope> Siren[m]: That would be a no, because he explicitly mentions free follow-up maintenance

16:36:16 <monerobull[m]> Yeah software shouldn't just break within a year

16:36:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> Siren:  I dont think there should be multiple ccs for this gui in a short span ie under
12 months

16:36:20 <Siren[m]> merope: Ah, okay

16:36:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> merope: This is my problemn

16:36:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Monerobash did tjis

16:36:55 <merope> But beside the occasional bug fixing, I would not expect any big changes in the way p2pool
gets launched

16:36:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> I dont want to see this from gupax

16:37:49 <hinto[m]> i'll explicitly say there won't be a gupax 2.0

16:37:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> Ever?

16:38:47 <hinto[m]> if p2pool/xmrig don't have any breaking changes, there won't be a need

16:38:48 <hinto[m]> any internal gupax changes would be on my own time

16:39:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> And what if you create s gupax 2.0

16:39:08 <ofrnxmr[m]> Then what? New ccs?

16:39:26 <hinto[m]> if i ran away and refused to maintain this, i don't think i would be very welcomed back

16:39:43 <ofrnxmr[m]> Making a new alias is easy. Cmon now

16:39:47 <hinto[m]> there's a implicit social contract being made here worth a lot more than 25xmr

16:40:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> 25 xmr is too much to ask? His about 80/20

16:40:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> How about

16:40:25 <Stnby[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: Gaining some trust is another thing

16:40:27 <hinto[m]> i care about p2pool use a lot, i'm making this because i want p2pool to succeed

16:40:40 <plowsof> again, hinto has 1 completed ccs and merges in monero-core

16:40:55 <ofrnxmr[m]> Completed ccs withva follow up ccs for double the initial

16:41:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> In short order

16:41:42 <plowsof> i think we can vote now?

16:41:58 <plowsof> i vote move to funding as is

16:42:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> I'm the only no vote

16:42:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> (Yes with maintenance as a portion of ccs)

16:43:24 <monerobull[m]> I'm going to say yes since this is important software and Hinto is not a total
unknown

16:43:45 <Siren[m]> I like the idea and the WIP GUI, so a yes from me too

16:43:58 <ofrnxmr[m]> 🥳

16:44:06 <Siren[m]> (if my votes count :) )

16:44:47 <ofrnxmr[m]> hinto @hinto.janaiyo:matrix.org: 😈 I tried

16:44:53 <pandapaperwallet> it is a yes from me too but I'm new here

16:45:01 <plowsof>   g. [Monero Paper Wallets](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-
proposals/-/merge_requests/352)

16:45:17 <monerobull[m]> Btw can I say it's kinda cute how we make decisions on the spending of a 3 billion
dollars project with like 5 people

16:45:20 <ofrnxmr[m]> Instaclose

16:45:27 <monerobull[m]> s/dollars/dollar/

16:45:36 <plowsof> https://xmr.gift/generator/ https://xmr.gift

16:45:55 <plowsof> close

16:45:57 <monerobull[m]> I'm against the wallet designs

16:46:18 <monerobull[m]> I can make some with ai for free

16:46:20 <merope> Why close? I like it

16:46:23 <plowsof> we have them already, #xmr.gift:matrix.org and a team dedicated

16:46:30 <Siren[m]> Panda: could you provide us with one of the designs? Or some of your previous unrelated
work?

16:46:33 <merope> plowsof: These are for gift wallets. Also, they require going through apps for qr codes and
stuff

16:46:40 <monerobull[m]> merope: No previous work

16:46:43 <merope> I just want to write down my seed on a cute piece of paper

16:46:44 <Stnby[m]> I am not against paper wallets but would like to see at least 1 design to get what you
mean/ your art style

16:46:54 <ofrnxmr[m]> Panda:  this is your proposal?

16:46:55 <monerobull[m]> merope: We have that already

16:46:58 <plowsof> doesnt msvb labs have gift wallets on indistructable paper?

16:47:12 <plowsof> whats the point

16:47:15 <monerobull[m]> The toughy wally or something like that

16:47:16 <merope> monerobull[m]: I've only seen one design "in the wild"

16:47:16 <pandapaperwallet> The idea behind it is different in my opinion. I think that whether you want to
keep your wallet completely offline by keep it on a paper wallet you should be able to. I do agree on the
qrcodes utility but this means using a phone to scan it/create the qrcode and that is exactly what I wanted to
avoid.

16:47:40 <plowsof> we have them though , i don't get it

16:47:42 <Siren[m]> plowsof: The proposal is so we pay for the designs it seems

16:48:08 <Siren[m]> But what are they like? Some epic artwork? Or tux paint?

16:48:09 <plowsof> i would rather give the contract to a contirbutor who has produced designs at
#xmr.gift:matrix.org

16:48:18 <plowsof> known in the community etc

16:48:23 <pandapaperwallet> I do understand that I’m new and you don’t know me, so I propose to split my
proposal in a pre-proposal of 3 designs (both A4 and credit card dimensions) in order to show you my thoughts.
Than, if you do like my designs, I will submit another proposal for the others.

16:48:29 <monerobull[m]> merope: We can buy assets from adobe for 20$ and remake it. No point in paying some
"designer" without any designs 2 grand

16:48:43 <plowsof> although gift cards - its not a huge leap of faith for the designer to make a cold wallet
thing

16:49:02 <ofrnxmr[m]> I think you should release a free one first

16:49:11 <pandapaperwallet> I can share a mockup (ignore errors, just a wip)

16:49:25 * pandapaperwallet posted a file: (32KiB) <
https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/matrix.org/PheZOJZuDTsjqEhpbPXzBHyJ/design1.pdf >

16:49:41 <monerobull[m]> :/

16:49:45 <plowsof> that would be a start , lets discuss the remaining proposal in the last 10 mins

16:49:49 <ofrnxmr[m]> I think you need a working version

16:50:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Lets move on

16:50:07 <plowsof>   h. [Metronero Checkout](https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-
proposals/-/merge_requests/353)

16:50:37 <pandapaperwallet> ofrnxmr[m]: what do you mean?

16:50:38 <plowsof> metronero was only added today, so this is an introduction

16:50:39 <ofrnxmr[m]> This one is very new

16:50:44 <ofrnxmr[m]> I havent had time to read ir

16:50:54 <plowsof> just sharing it for us

16:51:10 <ofrnxmr[m]> I Vote: postpone til best meeting

16:51:11 <ofrnxmr[m]> Next*

16:51:31 <plowsof> yes, just introducing it

16:51:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Siren, can you ELO5

16:51:31 <Stnby[m]> plowsof: We kept it a secret, except from plowsof

16:51:31 <monerobull[m]> Haven't read it either

16:51:54 <Siren[m]> What do you mean by that? :D

16:52:03 <monerobull[m]> Explain like we're five

16:52:09 <monerobull[m]> Misspelled

16:52:18 <plowsof> what is metronero and when will i need/use it

16:52:55 <plowsof> merchants who want to sell products for monero

16:53:05 <ofrnxmr[m]> This is like hotshop 2.0?

16:53:09 <Siren[m]> Have you guys seen payment gateways provided by PayPal, Revolut and basically most of the
e-banking systems? This basically what we would like to make.

16:53:21 <Stnby[m]> Basically you geberate a payment link

16:53:30 <Stnby[m]> s/geberate/generate/

16:53:47 <Siren[m]> Let's say there's a shop using one of these gateways. Upon checkout the shop redirects you
to the gateway, and upon payment handling by the gateway you bounce back to the shop.

16:54:05 <monerobull[m]> So like btcpayserver?

16:54:12 <Siren[m]> Yes, similar

16:54:16 <Stnby[m]> monerobull[m]: Exactly

16:54:19 <plowsof> yes (or like Square for fiat checkouts)

16:54:26 <Stnby[m]> We have it under why section

16:54:43 <Stnby[m]> And whats the difference between what we are making and btcpay server

16:54:57 <Siren[m]> For short we did not like how poorly btcpayserver performed without Javascript

16:55:04 <merope> Are you sure you can do it in 5+5 weeks?

16:55:15 <Stnby[m]> And had medioker monero support and also C#

16:55:19 <Siren[m]> We have it performing perfectly fine without JS

16:55:31 <Stnby[m]> merope: Yeah we have a barely working PoC already

16:55:37 <merope> Milestone 1 involves "planning the backend, api" and rewriting a whole bunch of stuff

16:55:41 <Stnby[m]> https://metronero.digilol.net

16:55:44 <monerobull[m]> Siren[m]: So it will work well on Tor browser extreme settings?

16:55:55 <Siren[m]> monerobull[m]: Yes

16:55:55 <Stnby[m]> Stagenet btw

16:55:59 <Siren[m]> Absolutely no JS

16:56:18 <monerobull[m]> That's nice

16:56:21 <Siren[m]> We use HTTP headers for refreshing by default

16:56:22 <Stnby[m]> Http can do refreshes via Refresh header or a meta tag

16:56:33 <Stnby[m]> Absolutely no need for JS

16:57:12 <hinto[m]> Siren Stnby: would a github mirror ever be considered? ironically gitlab relies on JS

16:57:19 <Siren[m]> The PoC was working last time we checked (about a month ago) but there is a problem with
our wallet rpc server on stagenet. I will spin our own stagenet node tonight.

16:58:05 <Siren[m]> hinto[m]: We will mirror the rewrite on both public gitlab and GitHub instances

16:58:08 <Stnby[m]> Github relies on Microsoft but we could mirror it to repo.getmonero.org

16:58:13 <Siren[m]> We are not too proud of the PoC

16:58:24 <Siren[m]> But it is fully open source

16:59:26 <Stnby[m]> AGPLv3 :)

16:59:38 <monerobull[m]> Will you keep it working after potential seraphis fork

17:00:01 <plowsof> i have seen an example payment request on stagenet (where you see the qr code/address to
send funds to and it refreshes to show completion of payment) it would be ideal to have this to show us again

17:00:40 <plowsof> redirects to the 'shop after payment received etc

17:00:42 <Stnby[m]> We will keep it working as we need it for ourseleves, we would even consider making this
without a proposal like moneropay.eu, but plowsof encouraged us to create one

17:01:55 <plowsof> MoneroPay team have my support, thanks

17:02:01 <Siren[m]> monerobull[m]: It uses Moneropay to do payment processing, which uses official wallet rpc
server underneath. Unless the wallet rpc server will break after the fork, everything should be still working.

17:02:42 <Stnby[m]> If it doesnt we will shout on the core untill it starts working, jk

17:03:36 <plowsof> now the hour is up, any parting words? also waiting on jberman/selsta for their ccs
renewals

17:03:52 <Siren[m]> plowsof: In the PoC UI we have a form where you can fill a form and generate this payment
page which upon cancellation or completion redirects you to the provided URLs. But ideally you can have your
backend make a post request to create these pages automatically.

17:04:32 <selsta> plowsof: will open today lol

17:04:38 <Stnby[m]> Also meteonero will keep merchant system up to date with the satus over callbacks

17:04:40 <plowsof> +1

17:04:47 <Stnby[m]> s/satus/status/

17:05:01 <Siren[m]> <merope> "Are you sure you can do it in 5+..." <- Yes, should be enough.

17:05:04 <Stnby[m]> * Also meteonero will keep merchant system up to date with the payment status over
callbacks

17:06:32 <Stnby[m]> Siren[m]: Will be enough, if we do not finish it on time its us to blame and we will work
on it until it works!

17:06:45 <Siren[m]> ^ For free

17:07:38 <Stnby[m]> Maintenance will be free as well

17:08:28 <hinto[m]> <plowsof> "now the hour is up, any parting..." <- is luigi here?

17:08:56 <hinto[m]> i'd like to get working and a confirmed merge would take a lot of worries off my mind

17:09:22 <plowsof> almost , Driving home , soon though, ill update by the end of today on whats happening

17:10:03 <plowsof> ok , seems like we've reached the end, thank you all for attending ❤️

17:10:07 <merope> btw plowsof, I noticed a bunch of spam comments in some of the proposals

17:10:16 <ofrnxmr[m]> Yeah

17:10:37 <hinto[m]> plowsof: are you luigi :D ?

17:10:37 <merope> (dunno if you have the power to clean up)

17:10:38 <ajs_[m]> i wanted to give a quick update on MoneroKon 2023

17:10:38 <plowsof> i read the email after each gets posted , i will ask for rights to delete them

17:10:40 <ofrnxmr[m]> hinto @hinto.janaiyo:matrix.org:  im luigi

17:10:54 <plowsof> ah hello ajs_

17:11:01 <Stnby[m]> Thank you as well plowsof have a safe ride don't die while texting!

17:11:07 <Siren[m]> One of the spam comments: https://repo.getmonero.org/monero-project/ccs-
proposals/-/merge_requests/345#note_18884

17:11:37 <ajs_[m]> We have narrowed down the venue options to two locations  - Neuchâtel, Switzerland and
Prague, Czechia

17:11:49 <merope> we are all luigi

17:11:58 <ajs_[m]> https://github.com/MoneroKon/meta/issues/1

17:11:58 <merope> luigi is a hivemind

17:11:59 <ajs_[m]> We are still waiting on further details from University of Neuchâtel and we've received a
agreement from La Fabrika.

17:11:59 <pandapaperwallet> <ofrnxmr[m]> "I think you should release a..." <- Ok I will release one upfront
and we will discuss about it later. Thank you for your suggestion

17:11:59 <ajs_[m]> La Fabrika is offering 3 days + 1 day setup... 5x10m stage, 6 long tables, 12 chairs, 12
bistro tables, PA system, stage lighting, laser projector and screen (610 x 345cm) + support staff (production
manager, light board operator, sound engineer, video engineer, cloakroom attendants, fireman, cleanup crew)...
~53k EUR

17:12:00 <ajs_[m]> Personally, I am leaning towards La Fabrika since we have close contacts with Paralelni
Polis. On the other hand, Neuchâtel might be a cheaper option since the venue is at a university and the
Nym/DarkFi teams are interested in collaborating with us.

17:12:23 <ajs_[m]> We will be making a final decision on the venue in next week's MoneroKon planning meeting.

17:12:31 <ajs_[m]> https://github.com/monero-project/meta/issues/749

17:12:34 <Stnby[m]> Will there be anyone in fossdem from monero next year

17:12:42 <plowsof> Exciting, thank you for the update!

17:12:46 <ajs_[m]> I invite everyone to chime in the choices by joining the planning meeting or commenting on
the GitHub issue

17:12:57 <ajs_[m]> Once we gather additional quotes from vendors and finalise the budget, we should be
submitting a CCS proposal sometime in early December.

17:13:12 <ajs_[m]> that's it.. thanks

17:13:16 <monerobull[m]> I'll set up talk submissions once we have a venue

17:15:23 <plowsof> ok everyone thanks for attending, if the hiveminds wishes are not implemented , it is my
fault

17:15:32 <Siren[m]> Stnby[m]: Me and Stnby are going

17:16:13 <hinto[m]> i might be the only person here not in europe

17:16:16 <plowsof> https://fosdem.org/2023/

17:16:39 <hinto[m]> ty plowsof

17:16:53 <plowsof> Brussels / Belgium

17:17:18 <Stnby[m]> Who is going!!!!

17:17:39 <Stnby[m]> We have to exchange some Monero srickers

17:18:36 <monerobull[m]> plowsof: Thank you for moderating

17:18:52 <monerobull[m]> Stnby[m]: Just order them from me 😎

17:24:34 <Stnby[m]> Do you sell them?

17:25:40 <monerobull[m]> Monerosupplies.com

17:25:41 <monerobull[m]> https://monerosupplies.com/

17:26:06 <Stnby[m]> We got like 200 of these from the guy in Vilnius for free

17:26:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> <pandapaperwallet> "Ok I will release one upfront..." <- plowsof:

17:26:22 <Stnby[m]> I think he might have bought it from you

17:26:39 <Siren[m]> monerobull[m]: We have the exact same stickers. It's probably from you. Laminated paper
right?

17:27:44 <monerobull[m]> Yeah vinyl

17:27:57 <monerobull[m]> Outdoor rated

17:28:09 * Stnby[m] uploaded an image: (69KiB) < https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/kernal.eu/f
HvpNBWSimBuhLGEDMQjKqEC/PXL_20221014_182345444_20221105192752.jpg >

17:28:27 <monerobull[m]> Jup that's then

17:28:32 <monerobull[m]> * Jup that's them

17:28:41 <Stnby[m]> We already used them all

17:28:49 <plowsof> if we like the idea of monero paper wallets , then we should sponsor the gift-wallet team
(more info in my comment on the ccs idea - as 'gift wallet' is also == restoring a wallet from seed - side
stepping all of their effort / research and dev. and asking for funding when you dont have a simple PoC design
yourself feels insulting )

17:28:53 <monerobull[m]> Nice

17:29:15 <Stnby[m]> If you ever go to Vilnius you will see them absolutely everywhere

17:29:43 <Siren[m]> We have wars with nft people

17:29:51 * Siren[m] uploaded an image: (98KiB) <
https://libera.ems.host/_matrix/media/v3/download/kernal.eu/XTwZqjRyYLIAShXisMjuBAFL/IMG20221101182714.jpg >

17:30:04 <Siren[m]> They must suffer for what they have done

17:30:05 <monerobull[m]> The Vilnius person is mega based donated multiple boxes

17:30:58 <monerobull[m]> Siren[m]: Surprised that it's still on there

17:31:24 <merope> <pandapaperwallet> "design1.pdf" <- plowsof they did send a sample

17:31:24 <monerobull[m]> I thought they are decently easy to remove ion one piece

17:32:40 <Stnby[m]> monerobull[m]: Noooo

17:32:46 <Stnby[m]> They are hard af to remove

17:33:09 <Siren[m]> monerobull[m]: Nope they rip easily

17:33:18 <Siren[m]> Which is actually good

17:33:22 <Siren[m]> They get pissed and give up

17:33:24 <Stnby[m]> Perfect for vandalising the city

17:33:55 <Stnby[m]> If they rip it we put 2 extra next day

17:34:00 <monerobull[m]> Kek I've never tried to remove em

17:35:47 <plowsof> endor00: reminds me of https://xmr.gift/templates/black/ if this is something we like then
pay the community member(s) who spear headed the gift card movement voluntarily

17:37:55 <merope> But this isn't about gift cards 🤔

17:38:06 <plowsof> imagine 2 applications "hello im behind xmr - gift , i want to also make templates for
wallet recover" vs "hello i have no experience, heres a proof of concept and im a random person"

17:39:10 <merope> Strictly speaking, that doesn't preclude the latter from delivering a nice design

17:39:39 <plowsof> which of the two would have our support?

17:40:09 <plowsof> if we want nicer designs we know people who can produce them already

17:41:16 <merope> Both? While I share the reticence towards funding unknown people, I don't think that should
be enough to reject a proposal. Otherwise you're driving outsiders away

17:43:07 <merope> The final decision to fund the proposal should be up to the donors themselves, not to us
discussing it

17:43:10 <plowsof> "driving outsiders away" only when we don't need to outsource the labour

17:43:12 <plowsof> e.g. https://monero.graphics/

17:45:06 <plowsof> but ofcourse, if there is no competing proposal...

17:45:12 <merope> plowsof: I don't see a ccs proposal for paper wallet designs from them though

17:45:19 <merope> (oops, network lag)

17:47:04 <plowsof> it was posted several hours ago*

17:47:07 <merope> Aside from filtering out the "obviously bad" stuff, I don't think it's up to us to decide
whether a proposal *should* be funded

17:50:02 <plowsof> what about "obviously better"?

17:50:10 <plowsof> or shld there be 2 ccs' for monero paper wallets simultaneously (or a few weeks apart) for
paper wallets

17:51:12 <merope> Why not? Why shouldn't there be two competing proposals?

17:51:12 <plowsof> if i contact gnuteardrops of monero.graphics and he posts a ccs for example

17:51:17 <ofrnxmr[m]> plowsof:  panda said they would release a free copy for people to use and try

17:51:24 <plowsof> two competing proposals moved to funding?

17:51:27 <ofrnxmr[m]> So we can know better if we went to fund 20 more

17:51:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> Want

17:51:57 <plowsof> true, this is a great 1st step

17:52:09 <merope> plowsof: Yep

17:52:35 <plowsof> has that ever happened?

17:53:25 <merope> Otherwise, it's 10 of us in this chatroom right now deciding whether a proposal is "worthy"
of funding for *all potential monero donors*, purely based on our personal preference

17:53:59 <merope>  * Otherwise, it's 10 of us in this chatroom right now deciding whether a proposal is
"worthy" of funding in the name of _all potential monero donors_, purely based on our personal preference

17:54:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> I try not to vote with person anything

17:54:31 <ofrnxmr[m]> If I dont like a proposal, its usually for a reason I feel is valid and being overlooked

17:55:24 <merope> And I don't think that would be fair towards proposers

17:55:24 <plowsof> (sometimes less than 10) but these meetings don't decide (in isolation) , its the overall
feedback obtained throughout the time the proposal is at the idea stage (be it from gitlab/reddit/irc)

17:55:24 <ofrnxmr[m]> Example, panda proposal when nobody knows what they are actually proposing

17:56:16 <merope> ofrnxmr[m]: 10 paper wallet designs in 10 milestones? seemed pretty straightforward to me.
Why would that *not* be a **valid** proposal?

17:57:06 <ofrnxmr[m]> I can create 10 paperwallets with a pencil and my big toe

17:57:25 <merope> And nobody's stopping you

17:57:30 <ofrnxmr[m]> Which is why an example was asked of, and why I requested a working model

17:57:46 <ofrnxmr[m]> And panda seems to feel that to be reasonable

17:58:03 <ofrnxmr[m]> Which should also help garner support / clear the noise

17:58:07 <merope> And they sent a wip design

17:58:12 <aremor[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: But will you do it. Or anyone else for that matter

17:58:32 <ofrnxmr[m]> Endor, were arguing the same point?

17:59:31 <merope> My point is that, in spite of the fact that this proposal seems perfectly valid, you voted
against it (while claiming that you vote against proposals that have issues/are not valid)

18:00:04 <ofrnxmr[m]> I simply asked panda to submit a working version and they obliged?

18:00:09 <plowsof> i think it was me who voted against it? or

18:00:18 <ofrnxmr[m]> For further voting

18:00:42 <plowsof> its new so not much to vote on

18:00:56 <merope> <ofrnxmr[m]> "Instaclose" <- ^

18:01:04 <ceetee[m]> ofrnxmr[m]: live stream pls 😍

18:01:14 <ofrnxmr[m]> I missed the /s ? Lol

18:01:39 <plowsof> im just saying that i "know of people" who could do better (until of course, Panda proves
otherwise - and now he has released a proof of concept design so thats a good start)

18:03:22 <merope> But that doesn't mean that we should be rejecting someone else's proposal

18:03:54 <plowsof> Members of Core agree/share your opinion, that we should not make the decision on who is
worthy of getting funding

18:04:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Then the better person should open a proposal

18:05:09 <merope> Then all people should open a proposal, and it should be up to the donors to decide whether
to fund one, the other, both, neither, or anything else

18:06:21 <ofrnxmr[m]> Moon and observer have "competing ccs". Cant believe I forgot about that example

18:06:24 <plowsof> if all people where able to open a proposal we might have more proposals in my
purgatory/OTHER list with unfinished milestones

18:06:53 <plowsof> thus creating a bad look for the following proposals that come after it

18:08:56 <ofrnxmr[m]> Panda: sorry for using you as an example 😂. Nothing against you or your proposal

18:09:18 <plowsof> Panda sorry, you have/are doing everything correct

18:10:21 <plowsof> my bias is that i want to show everyone the great work of some other contributors is all,
clouding my decisions

Automated by this

[plowsof]

cont:

18:14:01 <ofrnxmr[m]> Like.. I could use some more monerochan from a new artist 🤷‍♂️
18:19:19 <pandapaperwallet> No problem, by the way I do have another proof of concept design as wip if you are interested. This is a project I already started for myself and I just wanted to share my work with the community
18:25:10 <Stnby[m]> <pandapaperwallet> "No problem, by the way I do have..." <- Sure, I would be interested