network gifts

[chadwhitacre]

Here's a brainstorm for making Gittip more supple and less coarse-grained and potentially answering the issues raised in the #216, #27, #55, #327 nexus.

• I can set up a gift to @JustinLilly's network (btw, name change?).
• @JustinLilly doesn't know about it.
• The gift is split somehow amongst people that @JustinLilly gives to.
  • People that I give to directly aren't included in the network gift.
  • No-one gets more than $24 in network gifts via any one person.
  • The gift goes to one degree past @JustinLilly until hitting the $24 limit, then to two degrees, etc.
  • Maybe the gifts are pro-rated based on @JustinLilly's amounts, etc.
• The recipient sees all gifts received in this way (no matter the patron) as a single lump sum gift from "society" or some such

Let's say 10 people give $100 network gifts each to @JustinLilly. So on Thursday there's $1,000 to distribute amongst @JustinLilly's network. That would go to his immediate network according to the ratio of his gifts to them until each is receiving $24 in view of their being in @JustinLilly's network. Let's say he has 25 people he's giving to. So roughly $600 of the $1000 would go to those 25 people, and then $400 would spill over into the next level out from @JustinLilly.

Again, this would be presented very simply to recipients. I would have an additional line on my history page that would just say "$598 from society."

[chadwhitacre]

I like this because it's simple from both the giver and the receiver's perspective. It's only complicated in the middle, under the hood.

I also like that it works entirely with people. We don't have to clutter Gittip with explicit projects (apart from those pretending to be people ;-) ).

I wonder how stable it would be over time. Would it fluctuate wildly from week to week? That would be a counter-indication, imo.

[chadwhitacre]

The UI would be an input near the tip buttons for an unrestricted amount to be given to so-and-so's network.

[timothyfcook]

hmmmm, but what if I want to Tip everyone working on Gittip or everyone working on " " ...can I just hope that if I fund whit537's network he will redistribute to the rest of his Gittip helpers?

[timothyfcook]

This also doesn't solve the problem of recognition. People will come on Gittip and say, "Oh! This is cool, now I can support those great folks who run the PghPythonUG!" ...search...search... get distracted... back to work, no tips given. It's easy to remember projects that benefit us, much harder to know the names behind them. Maybe we can, at least, have people associate themselves with Project tags so that we could search by projects?

[chadwhitacre]

A project or organization would create an account on Gittip as @readthedocs has done. The project then sets up gifts to individuals or other organizations or projects of its own accord, and the money flows.

Boom. 🚀

[timothyfcook]

rockets away! That's perfect! Almost...
Three questions:

1. With the Networked gifts, when I give $100 to readthedocs network , none of it goes to them? All of it goes to the network? ...I assume this is true.
2. How do you define "network"? Is this all of the people that readthedocs has set up tips to? If so, that's tricky...what if @readthedocs does not want to tip its network, it just wants to act as a passthrough? Is there a way to identify connections to other users without tipping them?
3. WIll the pass-through network gifts be pro-rated? Seems likely that readthedocs might want to give different amounts to different levels of contribution.

[chadwhitacre]

This brings us back around to #55, if we allow accounts to also direct some or all of their direct tips to their network.

[timothyfcook]

yeah, seems like there's two ways to do it:

1. Let pass-through accounts directly identify who tips go to (in what distribution levels) if they are targeted for a network-gift
2. Let pass-through accounts receive tips directly and--when they have money in their "bank"--re-gift it to their network until they run out of money

That second option effectually kills the Networked-Gifts idea from the patron's end, since it would just look like a normal gift to a project-named account.

[chadwhitacre]

With the Networked gifts, when I give $100 to readthedocs network , none of it goes to them? All of it goes to the network? ...I assume this is true.

That's how I was thinking of it, yes.

How do you define "network"? Is this all of the people that readthedocs has set up tips to? If so, that's tricky...what if @readthedocs does not want to tip its network, it just wants to act as a passthrough? Is there a way to identify connections to other users without tipping them?

Is it enough for @readthedocs to not link a credit card?

WIll the pass-through network gifts be pro-rated? Seems likely that readthedocs might want to give different amounts to different levels of contribution.

That's how I was thinking of it, yes. It would be based on the tip amounts that @readthedocs sets up.

[chadwhitacre]

I think there's something here. I need to be careful not to get too distracted. Hopefully after the new year we can revisit The Nexus and start implementing something.

[timothyfcook]

Ah. Good idea The non-linked credit card is tricky! Feels a bit hacky though...in addition, you could just have a True/False checkbox for new accounts to ID themselves as a Project designed to pass Tips to their network.

Any implications here on the Fraud end? Seems like things could get spider-webby and tangled with money bouncing around like this.

This is definitely the right direction though. The sooner this happens the better. Then you should approach Projects to set up accounts.

[justinabrahms]

The fundamental issue I have with this is that it necessitates the dispenser to already be contributing his own money to gittip. I may want to rely on jacobian's sensibilities of who deserves money, but I don't want him to have to pony up his own money for that to count.

[timothyfcook]

It seems like you already have this functionality available though, so it might not take much work aside from making users aware.

I am already able to Tip you and then you re-tip that money to readthedocs. If I have a CC on file, but you don't, readthedocs should still get the money, right?

Not sure how it works on the back end, but it seems like it's nearly there already, just needs to be made more obvious in the UI.

I may be wrong.

[timothyfcook]

Justin, I think Chad was saying that the dispenser, the "pass-through" sending money to a network, does not need to be contributing his own money. If they don't have a CC on file, then the money they "tip" is just a promise, not a gift.

There should be a way though to make it less hacky so the network distribution isn't solely defined by un-backed tips.

[sigmavirus24]

So for projects/organizations, could the receiver of the network gifts do something like split the tips based on a percentage to each person? For example, project X has 10 people working on it and whoever is in charge wants to split it evenly so 10% of each week's tips go to each of the members. (Or maybe they want to do some other scheme of percentages)

[ncoghlan]

I was initially thinking this could work nicely with #316, but on further reflection, I think it just complicates the question of how to handle the pro rata redistribution :(

[chadwhitacre]

Subsumed by #449.