diff --git a/src/keri/core/serdering.py b/src/keri/core/serdering.py
index 9aa53c99d..f5df60b99 100644
--- a/src/keri/core/serdering.py
+++ b/src/keri/core/serdering.py
@@ -1055,6 +1055,8 @@ def said(self):
         Returns:
            said (str): qb64
         """
+        if not self.Fields[self.proto][self.vrsn][self.ilk].saids.keys() and 'd' in self._sad:
+            return self._sad['d']  # special case for non-saidive messages like rct
         return self._said
 
 
@@ -1064,7 +1066,7 @@ def saidb(self):
         Returns:
             saidb (bytes): qb64b of said  of .saider
         """
-        return self._said.encode("utf-8") if self._said is not None else None
+        return self.said.encode("utf-8") if self.said is not None else None
 
 
     @property
diff --git a/tests/core/test_serdering.py b/tests/core/test_serdering.py
index 01d1b8d52..d3ffdb4d2 100644
--- a/tests/core/test_serdering.py
+++ b/tests/core/test_serdering.py
@@ -1580,7 +1580,9 @@ def test_serderkeri_rct():
 
     assert not serder.verify()  # because pre is empty
     assert serder.ilk == kering.Ilks.rct
-    assert serder.pre == '' != serder.said  # prefix is not saidive
+    assert serder._said == None  # no saidive fields
+    assert serder.pre == ''  # prefix is not saidive
+    assert serder.said == ''  # d field is not saidive
 
     sad = serder.sad